Episode 346
346. Why Dallas sold half her studio - then bought it back
Dallas Noerdlinger (Core Pilates, Oklahoma City) shares why she sold 50% of her studio during pregnancy, what changed in the business and culture, and how she bought it back.
We talk boutique vs franchise positioning, keeping instructors happy, managing owner overwhelm, and the “unlimited membership” + waitlist problem—plus practical fixes for capacity, pricing, and schedule structure.
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
AdBarker - https://adbarker.com/privacy
Transcript
I'm here with Dallas Nordlinger, and we're going to find out all about her Pilates
::studio, Core Pilates, in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Dallas, welcome.
::Hi, thank you. Great to be here with you.
::So yes, tell me, just give us the brief overview of what you do and who you serve there.
::Yeah. So we are an equipment-based Pilates studio, and we're in a pretty good
::area of town, which is helpful, too.
::We're in a neighborhood where a lot of our clients live, and I've been open since 2019,
::and we have 11 reformers, so we have 11 people max in a class,
::and we teach a lot of group classes, but we also do a lot of private lessons,
::too, in between our classes.
::We have I think 14 instructors right
::now so there's quite a few of us and yeah
::we're um balanced body equipment it's
::a little more of a contemporary studio but still try to stay true to the you
::know Pilates method and yeah it's interesting we have a franchise right across
::the street from us a club Pilates that opened a few years ago and so I think it helps us a lot
::a way there to stay more of a boutique studio you
::know and that's we actually will occasionally you know we'll have clients come
::over from there they're asking us you know what's the difference from your studio
::and club bodies and so that's we try to focus more on our quality of instruction
::more than anything and our instructors being thoroughly certified and yeah that's,
::are you the so it's it's interesting that you opened in 2019 i want to ask you
::about covid in a second, but are you the sole owner or do you have business partners?
::So I am the sole owner, as of now, I is this is interesting, actually, the story.
::So I, in 2024, I guess, last Yeah, I guess it's just turned 2026.
::So I was pregnant. And so I thought I needed to sell part of the studio.
::And so I had and one of my instructors purchase half of it from me.
::And then I things weren't quite going the way I wanted them to go.
::So I just repurchased a bath in the last few months actually so um for about a year I had a partner,
::and but it is it's back to it's back
::to me being the sole owner and and yes and in 20 I was
::the sole owner in 2019 too so I had one year of being in a partnership and um
::I thought that was what I needed to do to kind of step away and be a mom for
::a while and I um go on maternity leave you know and have someone owning it with
::me versus managing it, hiring a manager.
::And now I see that I should have probably just hired a manager and continued to own it myself.
::Okay. And what was not going right? Or why did you change your mind on that? Okay.
::It was, I think I, um, during that year, it was exactly about,
::it was a little over a year, actually, that she was, um, her owner.
::There was just the, I would say the overall, like the culture of the studio
::was being slightly damaged.
::You know, the instructors were not as happy. Clients were not as happy.
::I was told a lot, it's just, it doesn't feel the same.
::It's the woman I had sold part of it to, we were just very different personalities.
::And, um, I was there a lot before.
::I mean, I was there every single day teaching, you know, 30 hours a week.
::And so, and then all of a sudden I just kind of disappeared,
::you know, I was gone and she was there taking over.
::And so it just shifted a lot of the way the studio felt.
::I think the overall morale of the studio, things still ran. Okay.
::Like nothing fell apart, you know, but, um.
::I actually sales began to slowly drop actually towards the end of it.
::I began to get I had never seen a drop in our sales.
::And so when I started seeing that old red arrow, I was like, something's wrong.
::And so in October, so just a few months ago, that change and I'm back fully
::and there has, I've been told at least there's a change.
::And it also kind of re motivated me, I think I had a year off, which was pretty nice.
::I was still involved a little bit. I was, I went back and taught a few months
::after my baby was born and I was there and occasionally,
::but I pretty much did have about a year off and that kind of re-motivated me
::to get re-energized and go back in with, I was pretty exhausted before.
::Like I was just worn out by owning a business and teaching a lot and felt like
::I needed a break, you know?
::So that wasn't why I sold, I mean, I intended that the partnership was going
::to last and that was my goal with it.
::I've made mistakes early on getting into partnerships with people who were not
::compatible with me, with the way that we work together.
::What did you originally look for in a partner and how has your understanding of that changed?
::Like what would, what would, what, what, where was the incompatibility and what
::would you look for if you ever did, you know, consider a partner in the future?
::Like what did you learn basically from this experience?
::Yeah. Um, a lot that, that it's really, I mean, it's like a marriage,
::but if anything, it's almost hard.
::It's yeah. And I don't know if I ever would do it again, because I just worry that you do, right.
::You go into it thinking nothing bad can happen, but then, you know,
::that you have to make decisions.
::I think the hardest part for me was having to run everything through
::someone else it was like hey I'm ordering toilet paper
::like FYI you know or I'm buying you know like we need this or
::we did you know and I was just like tired of like I just want to do it
::myself you know it's just easy it's and so there and then there's she didn't
::really luckily have a lot of ideas which was I mean so there wasn't like I didn't
::like what she was doing in that way but I think I felt more like it was I was
::still kind of around the face of the studio and that she wasn't really stepping
::into that role the way I hoped she would have.
::And so it just seemed, and then, you know, you split half of your profit too,
::which is so then it's, if you don't feel like the work is being equally shared,
::then there's a little bit of that discomfort of like that.
::So, okay. What, how do I summarize that as what did I learn altogether?
::Just that, um, I think I learned that I prefer to do things myself.
::Maybe that's, and um that
::it's you know that that i had a lot of pride in
::the studio that i didn't realize that i had to you know that
::it um i valued it i didn't maybe didn't realize how much i valued it and realized
::that i was actually pretty good at what i did before you know and that i um
::that it came a little more intuitively or naturally to me and that i should
::do that i was good at being a business owner. So why not keep doing it?
::And how did you approach the conversations about buying her back out?
::Um, I, yeah, my husband helped me with this because he's more of a businessman here.
::He works at a bank and I bet he helps me with a lot of those types of conversations
::that he phrased it as I went into it as this is going to be a difficult conversation.
::It was first thing I said, and then I just started talking, you know,
::I was like, this is how I feel.
::I feel pretty deeply about it, too. You know, like, I'm basically like,
::you know, I made my decision, like, I'm not interested in a lot of negotiating.
::And she, she was okay.
::It wasn't, luckily, it was pretty drama free. You know, we didn't lose anybody.
::I mean, you know, it was pretty easy to split.
::Just she was gone by the end of that month. Like the sale had been,
::we finalized it. So it was pretty simple.
::And I kind of knew it was going to be simple or I would have probably approached it with a bit more ease.
::I'm glad that I did that she, you know, because it could have gone bad.
::I guess she could have said no or, you know, argued with it or caused the drama.
::But it was yes so
::that that's how i went into just say basically you know i'm interested
::in buying you out and this is why and
::this is how i feel and a little bit of an ultimatum had to happen there you
::know it's either like if i'm gonna probably leave if this doesn't happen and
::so she was just like okay let's do it so now you're back in the driver's seat since,
::five, four or five months.
::Yes, October. So yeah, about four months. And how is the business going since then?
::It's going well. I made some changes. That was part of me wanting to take back
::full ownership too, as I was ready to purchase some new equipment.
::My studio needed a little revitalizing. We have two different sides of the studio,
::so half of the studio, the ceiling was pretty outdated.
::So we did a little cosmetic makeover.
::And then I've just tried to be there as much as possible, too,
::which I wasn't there as much before.
::And I think that's really helped with the instructors feeling more like a team
::and us working together and being there to greet clients.
::And I don't know if it's coincidental, but I actually have seen a change in
::sales in the last few months, too.
::It's january so this is always a good month but we are
::back in the green which is good so that makes me happy and i began reaching
::out to people i hadn't seen in a long time and just asking where they i sent
::out an email we kind of kind of stopped we kind of did we were not doing social
::media we had not sent out a studio newsletter in a year you know none of that
::was happening during that year and so,
::I had a studio photo shoot. We did that in November. So I was like,
::hey, we got to kind of pick things up again. I got to get re-motivated.
::So actually, when I bought it in 2019, I bought the studio from someone else.
::And it was for Grace's Pilates at the time. And so I rebranded it and made it Cork Pilates.
::And it was kind of a similar, I was actually saying it's a very similar situation.
::I had a one-year-old at the time. So I was on maternity leave for a year.
::And then the studio owner said, I want to sell the studio and I said,
::I want to buy it, you know, and so I had all these ideas going into it as how
::I wanted to rebuild it and change it and bring it back up.
::So I felt that that going in back into
::the business now I'm like okay what were some of the things I did before which was
::branding as helps you know just make yourself relevant you know send out emails
::and social media and reach out to clients who haven't some things that we I
::was not doing regularly when the studio is doing well it's okay you don't really
::I felt like I didn't need to do those things but,
::So, yeah. And it's been good. It was a little bit of like a slap in the face
::when I first, that month of October.
::I was like, oh my gosh, this is like I'm back. I was full force,
::you know, like back to doing all the things that I wasn't doing before,
::but I have acclimated the last couple months.
::I think you had contacted me around that time, coincidentally,
::or Derek, your manager, who helps you out.
::And I didn't email back for a while. I was like, I can't handle this right now.
::But then by December, I was like, I can introduce something new.
::Okay. A lot of studio owners, you know, overwhelm is a word that I hear a lot from studio owners.
::And you've got two relatively young children and a pretty substantial studio.
::Like I did a quick back of the envelope count.
::You've got somewhere on the order
::of 40 to 50 classes a week running there by my count and a team of 14.
::So how do you manage overwhelm or how do you manage your attention and your
::energy? yeah I that is it is.
::Challenging, that's for sure. And I would say what's helped me going back into
::it is teaching a little bit less and being able to focus on the business more.
::That's so my a lot of the classes I gave away when I was gone,
::I've just kind of let my instructors keep those.
::And so that and I felt way more relief in the last few months because of that
::I used to teach six or seven classes and privates a day plus manage everything and it was exhausting,
::you know, but and so now I'm able to have time to do payroll during the day
::versus at 10 o'clock at night, you know, and things like that.
::Um, it's be at the front desk and think more.
::I think a lot of times you don't have time to ever really clear your mind and
::think, and that's how you build the studios by thinking,
::you know, I think that again, me taking that year off was helpful because it
::gave me time to come up with new ideas and things I wanted to do and changes I wanted to make.
::But, okay, so yeah, it's overwhelmed. I don't know.
::I think you just have to roll with it, I guess, that some weeks are going to
::be more challenging than others.
::And the weeks that are easy, it's always like, what's wrong?
::Like, it's like, what's going on? Why am I not stressed out this week? Why, you know, but...
::I, through my own practice, I mean, Pilates brings me back to my body.
::And so I think that's really important is to keep your practice and to ultimately
::just be grateful for your business too, that it's, it's a privilege for,
::I look at it in clients who, you know, it's privileged for me to run this business.
::And so I feel lucky that I'm successful and I have these people coming to me
::and it's a good thing to be busy.
::Just source out some of the work I do have someone doing my books now which
::is very helpful and um I have recently hired a kind of semi not quite a manager
::role but she's just helping me with some social media and doing some front desk
::duties and things like that,
::um so yeah um
::note taking I mean I have notebooks all
::over the place I have to write everything down i think that being organized
::you know helps you with the overwhelm and just making lists you know this client's
::account needs to be updated and i need to add this class to schedule yeah and
::that's so i constantly have these lists going and trying to check those off as often as possible.
::Um what do you feel you know you your studio's been successful and profitable
::you know except for that, that few months when you stepped away,
::you know, pretty much from day one.
::And so, you know, what do you feel? And you said you're not,
::it sounds like even with the club Pilates across the street,
::you're still doing well and you're well positioned against them.
::So what do you think are the sort of the top couple of things that you really do right?
::What's really working for you?
::Um, I would say quality of instruction is the most important thing to me.
::So really, I, you know, focus a lot on my instructors talking about how are
::we teaching the best classes.
::And it's, you know, every single class matters, you know, it's like you want
::to look at every student like they are.
::You don't want to know, you know, to never make a bad impression, essentially.
::And so I think that to me, it's the most important thing.
::I'm not going to go back to the studio if I don't enjoy the instructors,
::you know, so that's, quality of instruction and good community and morale of the studio.
::I think we have a great community. And I think that's built up a lot.
::And then in the last six years, it's amazing to me actually how these groups
::of women, they go and they have happy hours and they've started a book club
::and they've, you know, and they've all met each other group bodies.
::And so that's, that's important that I, that your instructors are happy.
::You know, I always say I can't do this without my instructors so
::because you know I can't teach every single class
::and so I make sure that they are getting paid well
::and that they're happy and that they um enjoy
::what they're doing so that they show that in classes and um we I've never we've
::very little turnover like I mean I have the same instructors who I started with
::six years ago and we've just continued to build on them and so I'd say that
::it would be the most important of being reliable you know, communication with the clients,
::you know, always getting back to them before the end of the day,
::things like that, you know, if it's email or phone call or text message and, um...
::So just being consistent that's I think consistency in
::a business is really important it's a restaurant or it's a
::body studio it's like you want to know that you are going to get the same thing
::every time you go you know and so I think that's important and you know sticking
::to kind of the smaller business vibe to the more of the boutique you know we're
::not a franchise we are a small business and um not a.
::I think some people feel more comfortable actually going to a franchise,
::which I find interesting, you know, like maybe they're a little intimidated
::by the boutique studios. And so that and then we have pulled a lot from other
::studios because of that.
::They start at a Club Pilates or something and then they decide to switch over
::to us. And I think Club Pilates has actually been great competition for us.
::And Pilates just in general, I joke that it's when people ask me,
::how has it become successful compared to when I bought it back in 2019?
::It was not doing well at all.
::I mean, it was I remember that first couple of months that I owned it.
::I was like, I'm not making any money with that. You know, like I didn't realize
::that this was that that was the case, you know, that it was that.
::And then since then, it's tripled, you know, or quadrupled, honestly, the sales.
::And part of that's from just coinciding to late Pilates becoming really popular in the last five years.
::And to me, it's timeless. It's been around since the 60s, you know,
::and it's always going to be popular and it's always going to be relevant.
::But it started, you know, trending on TikTok and things like that.
::And like we get these new people coming from, you know, like just so.
::And 2020 was actually a great year. I think we marketed a lot of,
::we only had five people in a class, you know, as every other performer,
::we used masks and our cleaning protocol was very on par, you know.
::And so people felt comfortable being at our studio and they had a lot of time on their hands.
::They wanted to try new activities. They wanted to do private lessons instead
::of being in a group class.
::They didn't feel comfortable in yoga because there were too many people you
::know like so that helped and we grew a ton in 2020 surprisingly even despite
::being closed for you know a few months out of the year but.
::Well, I was going to ask you about COVID, so I'm glad you, thank you for bringing that up.
::I want to ask you about your, you know, you mentioned your instructors and the
::team has been very consistent.
::You have low turnover and it's obvious from a couple of things you've said,
::like that you really trust your instructors and the quality that they provide.
::And I don't hear that very often that owners are very comfortable to step away
::from teaching and hand classes over to their team, because often the team,
::in all honesty, aren't as good as the owner.
::So what gives you that confidence? Like, do you audit classes?
::Do you do team trainings? Like, how do you, what gives you that confidence?
::How do you maintain that?
::Yeah, no. And you're absolutely right that it's, um, I know there was a lot
::of what I went on eternity.
::There was a lot of like, we miss you. And when are you coming back and things like that?
::But, um, one of my main instructors who took over most of my classes,
::she was a client of mine for years before she started teaching.
::And so she learned from me a lot and they call her like, you know, little Dallas.
::Like, I mean, she just teaches basically similar to me.
::I think in the last few years she's developed as her own instructor more I think
::at this point people probably prefer her over me honestly sometimes hey um but
::which is great you know so that's um,
::and then yes we do like tomorrow actually we're having a workshop at the studio
::just two hours getting instructors together and talking about their teaching
::and I try to take their classes as often as possible and give them feedback
::as much as I can too and I think feedback I mean You know, I always,
::that's another struggle with being an owner is you become the mentor,
::you become the master, you know.
::I wish someone gave me feedback that I don't have anyone doing that,
::you know, but because when I go take their classes, you know,
::you could have cued a little more, you know, flex your foot underneath that safety strap.
::Or, you know, when we did this, I was a little confused. Or why are you picking that exercise?
::How does that make sense? You know, was it helpful? And that's where I think
::a lot of times we're not...
::Fully traditional studio fully classical studio but it's just teach Pilates
::like stick to the normal exercises you can little variety here and there but
::sometimes they get a little too creative it's like it doesn't make sense anymore
::you know so I think just helping them understand,
::what they're teaching and why they're teaching and what's your
::why behind your teaching you know and what helps them
::focus and I think have been a role
::model to them also you know this is they see my classes
::and my classes do tend to be waitlisted i mean i'm
::i am a popular way know that um clients
::enjoy taking from me and so if they can teach similar
::to my style i don't want them to be exactly like me i want them to have their
::own thing but if we can all be consistent and know that we're you know providing
::good classes consistently so and that i'm not going to hire someone who's not
::they i don't think knows what they're doing you know what i mean I want them to be fully certified.
::I want them to go through their training. I want them to be serious about teaching qualities and.
::But it's hard because when it was
::especially hard a few years ago when
::we didn't have as many instructors but now everybody wants to
::be a Pilates instructor you know it's like they're these people
::coming from all over play and it's amazing that we've
::grown a lot in that way to just like how Pilates
::is becoming more popular it's also more popular to teach Pilates and
::so that helps to have more instructors coming
::to us and yeah
::so I and then there's the my there's the balance of
::not micromanaging them you know you want them to also be
::able to do to do their own thing and that's
::how you prevent I think a lot of turnovers we
::have I mean I think I've been extremely lucky
::we do not have drama at our studio you know it's I try to be very friendly and
::fair and value them and let them know that they're valued and to keep them happy
::so they don't go teach somewhere else or they want to help the studio,
::help them grow and be a team player.
::What stresses you out or when you do feel overwhelmed or what is it that kind
::of preys on your mind and gives you anxiety about the business? Thank you.
::Oh, like everything. I mean, it's ever present in the studio.
::I mean, you never stop thinking about it. You know, I would say maybe the it's
::the subbing, I would say that is the biggest anxiety.
::And that's where, again, with the maternity leave thing, I thought,
::you know, if someone needs a sub last minute, and I can't go do it,
::you know, so I either need a manager or I need someone else owning the studio with me.
::And so, yeah, I think that waiting on those texts, someone's sick,
::you know, and, you know, they can't teach and then I need to get up and go do
::it, you know, or I need to find a sub quickly.
::And again, it's some weeks, everything's perfect and nobody's sick and nobody
::needs a sub and it's like smooth sailing. And then there's other weeks where
::it's like everything's falling apart, you know.
::And so I'd say that might be the biggest anxiety of that. And you can never really turn it off.
::You know, it doesn't matter if you're traveling or you've always got to have your phone on you.
::You've always got to be available to, you know, take care of problems that are happening.
::Like an hour before class, they can't teach or something. You know,
::what are you going to do? Oh, my God. So, yeah.
::And...
::Uh, in terms of just like where you're at kind of, uh, from a numbers perspective,
::you, you've got 11 reformers.
::I know you do mixed reformer plus equipment classes as well.
::And you're running somewhere on the order of 50 classes a week.
::So my guess is you'd have like 200 to 50 members, something on that order.
::Does that sound about right to you?
::You know I don't know the exact number but I
::would say probably I don't
::know like yeah I and we have memberships so then we also just sell class packages
::so like how many people do we actually have on auto pay you know on memberships
::maybe I don't know if quite 200 or 250 but 100 maybe on auto pay something like
::I should have looked at the numbers before we did this but.
::Um but yeah so i i'm not totally i'm not sure about that so it sounds like then you have a,
::maybe a 50 50 or even 60
::40 split in terms of people who would buy packs versus people who do the auto
::pay a big struggle and i'm sure other studio owners relate to this is the auto
::pay which is a great advantage because it's automatic and it's
::guaranteed revenue but you also just can't you have some clients who come 30
::times a month they're coming every single day or and um.
::So then they're only paying like $8 a class, you know,
::versus other clients of the clients who I have some clients,
::my older clients in particular, they just want me to buy them drop in classes
::every, you know, I mean, they're signed up Mondays and Fridays at 930.
::And at the end of the week, I purchased them drop ins.
::Those are the most profitable clients. And they're consistently paying $30 a
::class versus the auto pay ones who are $9 a class, you know,
::and I've considered should I change the
::structure of the studio to where we don't offer unlimited we don't
::offer auto pay we it's $30 class and that's
::just the and I know we lose a lot of clients by
::doing that because but then I think we but then would
::it balance itself out by instead we um
::would be making more per class there's a studio in Oklahoma City and that's
::their structure they don't sell they don't do memberships and they don't do
::unlimited months they do packages like I think they're they sell 10 classes
::it's their biggest package but the minimum they make per student in a class is $25.
::You know, say, but if you buy a package of 10, it's $2.50 or, you know, and.
::Sounds like a great setup to me because, you know, like sometimes it just depends
::on who's, there's 10 people in a class and they're all on auto pay and they
::come 30 times and it's like, it's hard. The studio is not as profitable that hour.
::But then there's the balance of those people are also still paying regardless
::of if they're, they go on a trip, you know, that auto pay is there.
::And I think it does keep them more consistent. They don't take breaks as often.
::You know, they might, someone else on a package might decide,
::hey, my package is up. I'm going to wait a couple of weeks before I buy another
::package or, and then they might go try another studio or something like that.
::But if you're on that membership, then you're kind of locked in.
::Although we do not have an official contract. I'm never going to,
::you know, make you, I'll cancel it for you if you need to cancel.
::So, yeah. So I think there's a balance between that, the auto,
::and then the wait list, you know, with these unlimited months too,
::is they go book themselves out a month in advance.
::And then with maybe not the intention of actually coming every single,
::they just wanted to save their spots.
::Our studio will look, it is looks like a lot of our classes are waitlisted and
::they are waitlisted technically, but then they end up opening up the day of
::because people go in and cancel.
::And we do have a 12 hour cancellation policy where they get charged if they
::don't come, but they might even cancel the night before.
::And so it can be pretty frustrating. And I would think with Pilates studios,
::especially compared to like a yoga studio where they can accommodate 30 people
::in a class, we can only accommodate 11, you know, so wait lists are much more of an issue.
::And then if you look at our schedule, they might, like our night,
::all of our morning classes have wait lists on them.
::And so it's hard to get new clients because they're like, well,
::I'm not going to join your studio because I can't get into any of your classes.
::I noticed that you have like a four times or five times a month membership and
::then an eight times and then you have the unlimited.
::What's the rough mix that you sell in between those three?
::Definitely the unlimited is the most popular, I would say. And then I would
::say second would be the eight classes and then third, the five.
::But the majority, I'd say we probably 70% unlimited, maybe 20% eight classes, 10% five.
::I think we only have a couple people on five classes a month.
::Have you done an attendance analysis on that unlimited cohort?
::Like, do you know how often they come on average?
::You know i don't know no i'm sure there's a way
::on mind that we use mind body there's probably a way to
::see that i keep a lot of it in my head
::another anxiety being a business owner is it's all
::in my head i'm like i know that's funny and to come all
::the time you know but um so no
::i probably i should look at that and then i go
::back and forth though with what why fix what's
::not broken it's like studios doing well I'm
::pretty happy with what it profits and I wanted
::to clarify when I said there was a red arrow I
::didn't actually mean like that we weren't profiting
::it was just compared to the year before the previous year basically
::that there was red and you know so even during those
::months that I wasn't owning it you know it's continued to
::be comfortable luckily but um
::so I so there's a balance of like okay maybe just
::leave things the way they are why mess with it you know it's working getting
::rid of the unlimited month what i think there would be a
::lot less communication that's what
::i get called and texted about constantly is like i need to sign up in advance
::for it to be so there i don't yeah it's a balance having done unlimited in my
::studio for a few years and made a lot of mistakes around it and just trial and
::error at a bunch and now I coach like 30 plus studio owners.
::What I've seen and what I would suggest for you if you do want to.
::Do anything about that is to start out by just doing an attendance analysis
::in mind-body to just find out like to what extent is it actually a problem because
::what i what i suspect you'll find,
::is that most of those unlimited people probably only come two
::or three times a week and there's probably a small number maybe eight
::or ten of them that literally come every day and there's a small cohort of just
::like probably even twice a day some of them i would suspect that that that very
::small number of people is using up a very disproportionately large amount of your capacity.
::And that probably 80% of the people on that unlimited only come like two and
::a half times a week on average or something like that would be my guess based
::on what I've seen in the past.
::And so that's what I would do is I know in MindBody you can just do a report of,
::you can tag people on unlimited membership, then just do an attendance
::report for those people only with the tag and you
::just export it to a csv file put it
::in an excel spreadsheet or a google sheet and then just sort
::it by how many classes they came during the month okay and
::you'll know like okay oh here's sally she came like 42 times
::right and then there's like but you'd
::be able to just go okay if you just sort it you'll go okay these
::people who came like more than three times
::a week right and there'll probably be you
::know 10 or 20 of those and then there'll be people who
::came three times a week or less and there'll be like 50 or
::60 or 80 or more of those
::and okay so if someone's so then you
::can split it and you can dichotomize it so first you'll see like how much of
::a problem is it like maybe there's only four people that come 40 times a month
::you know it's like you see it's very visible but it's not actually a big problem
::you know it doesn't matter we don't need to fix it but maybe it is a big problem
::you go okay maybe there are like 15 people coming 40 times a month each,
::and they're, you know, chewing through like.
::600 you know like class places a
::month you know like they're taking like a third of your
::class capacity and they're like one tenth of your clients you
::know and so it might be the case so just
::say you did find there's a whole bunch of people that come like three or fewer
::times and a few who come a lot we could instead like change the the unlimited
::membership the 139 or whatever you whatever you're charging change that to a
::three time a week right and that will still suit like 80% of the people who are doing it, right?
::And you just email those people and go, hey, Sally, I noticed the last three
::months you've come an average of 2.1 times a week.
::We're changing the membership to three times a week.
::No effect for you because that's all you use anyway, right? Sally will be totally fine with that.
::And then for those like 10 or whatever number of people that are coming,
::like just excessively, just say, hey, look,
::love that you like coming twice a day, but we're going to have to start charging
::you because you're paying like a quarter of the actual price of what
::it costs us to put that class on so yeah the
::unlimited then becomes you just put it
::up in price you know yeah yeah that's
::a good and i that is i thought about like offering a 12 classes a month option
::you know and then yeah i'm just making them limited right now it's 199 but increasing
::up to like 250 or something like that our pricing it's really hard to rate i
::mean i have a hard time with raising the pricing.
::I just feel bad, you know, it's like, there's a lot, but then I look at these
::other studios, just Oklahoma city, just, um.
::Opened two legree or one legree
::studio and one solid course i guess
::they're separate from each other but that happened this summer
::and they're more i
::mean it's like why are there i'm like how can they charge more than us and they
::have 20 people in a class and their instructors do a weekend course and i know
::it's each their own you know if you like that style of workout then you're gonna
::do that but then i thought we need to raise art we need to be comparable like
::i'm why am i charging less than them,
::you know, but, but then it's just hard to do that to your clients.
::I just feel bad, you know, I don't want to.
::Well, I think, you know, you don't necessarily need to raise your prices just
::because someone else's price differently. Like if you're happy with the profitability
::of the business and, you know, like you don't necessarily need to keep up with
::the Joneses there. Yeah.
::But pricing is one of the levers that you have to influence people's behavior, right?
::And so if you've got these people coming once a day, well, if it was $16 a class
::instead of $8 a class, a lot of them would probably modify their behavior, you know?
::And so it's not necessarily about like making more money from those people.
::It's about like opening up spaces so you're not waitlisted literally every day
::and no one can get in. But in reality, those classes end up being only 70% full
::on the day because people cancel the night before.
::So pricing can be a lever to modify behavior. And I don't know if I were in
::your situation, I would probably do that analysis, see what it tells me,
::and I'd proceed based on that.
::But assuming that you see what I thought you'd see, which is like most of those
::unlimited people come three times a week or less, I would take your current
::unlimited pricing and just turn it into a three times a week pricing.
::You're not increasing the charge, you're just decreasing the ceiling,
::the cap on what they can do per month.
::And then I would either go for that unlimited group, the people who truly are
::using the unlimited as an unlimited, and I would either sell them a five times
::a week membership or something like that, but I would price it commensurately.
::Or I would just say, hey, we're only going up to three times a week.
::You know that's that's the but if i want
::to do five times a week and you they want to pay twenty dollars a
::class great you know but yeah
::so anyway i mean you can take that take that
::or leave it but that's that's what i would do because i think the the i think
::the opportunity cost is you're you're blocking new people from coming into the
::studio because you've got these uh there's probably a small group of people
::who are just booking literally every day for a month, you know? Yeah.
::They are. Thank you. What –.
::What's your, you know, I'm going to guess your average revenue would be somewhere
::in the vicinity of like 25K a month. Is that about right?
::Yeah, 25 to 30, I would say. That's, yeah.
::And do you run the studio as like, are your team like employed or are they contractors?
::And I'm not really, I don't really, I'm not really asking about the legal status.
::I'm more like, do you pay them like a per session price or do they,
::like, do they rent the spice off you
::and by charge the clients we um
::they get paid hourly just based off it doesn't
::matter what the service is i have a couple instructors who
::did requests that they make more if it's a
::class and and actually and i do have one instructor who came from another studio
::and so she wanted to keep the same structure that she was she brought a lot
::of her clients with her basically and so she does pay me a percentage she's
::and she pays me like a studio fee essentially or a percentage of what her clients pay her directly.
::And then she writes me a check versus all my other instructors.
::I, they're, you know, $50 an hour. That's just what I do, regardless of what
::the service is, regardless how many people are in the class,
::that's just what they make.
::And that is just the structure that the previous owner had set up.
::And it's just been, it's really easy to do payroll that way because I'm not
::having to, I know my body does do a percentage and all that,
::but instead I just add up, okay, they taught 10 hours this week. This is what, you know.
::And it's worked so it's worked for I have I've thought about some incentives
::of if you have a full class maybe you make an additional five dollars or things like that but,
::So far, it's not a problem with, I think everyone's happy.
::I mean, I remember when I started teaching Pilates in like 2011,
::it's been years ago, is that 15 years ago?
::I made $25 a class and I thought that was great.
::You know, I was like, I think you're $25 an hour. You know, I was like,
::you know, 19 at the time or something.
::But now, you know, instructors are making like, I think like 50 is the average
::kind of what you make to teach Pilates. And that does make it harder.
::You know, it makes me think that we do sometimes need to raise our pricing because
::I need to be able to pay if I if they did want to.
::If any if I do eventually do another raise and I have every couple of years
::or so, if I give them a raise and it's like, then at that point,
::we're going to need to raise our pricing on our private lessons and classes to accommodate that.
::And then, you know, rent going up every year. it's a
::my husband again back to him being the banker he talks about
::how inflation you have to keep up with inflation so
::that that's where you always want to see that green arrow that it's you are
::right you know from the previous year it should be five percent higher than
::what you made the previous year you know because to um and so yes that's that
::that's the structure we have which is just, it's easy.
::I know that in a lot of studios, there's a lot of ways you can pay.
::Do you have any advice on that or recommendations?
::I think it's, I mean, if it's working for you, I think it's good.
::I agree you should pay a lot.
::My philosophy is to pay top of market, like basically as good or slightly better
::than what they could get if they went across the road.
::Like you already said, that gives you as the owner peace of mind that they're
::not going to get an offer for $5 an hour better, you know, up the road.
::Yeah. So I pretty, I think philosophically we're aligned on that.
::I've got to, and I agree with your husband that an annual price rise should
::just be a standard thing that every business, Pilates Studio or any other type
::of business does because your costs go up every year.
::And so if you keep your pricing the same, you make less money every year than
::you made the year before in real terms.
::So yeah, I 100% agree with your husband. I think, you know, 1st of January every
::year or 1st of June every year or whatever it is, it's just 5% or whatever the
::cost of living increase is.
::And that should just be a routine thing that is scheduled in advance and it's
::not a big deal and your clients will be totally fine with it because they're
::people that exist in the real world and they know that costs have gone up for everyone else.
::They've probably put up their prices in their business as well.
::So, yeah. Yeah.
::So, you know, I asked you before about kind of what stresses you out and you
::said the subbing, you know, that stresses you out.
::Um that's kind of like a day-to-day thing
::right what is it what's the
::number one thing that in just in terms of the business overall that like you
::wish was different or better or you know you kind of feel blocked like you want
::to you want to grow but there's it's not the you know there's something in your
::way or something you can't solve yeah um,
::I, I would say the, like, like we talked about the waitlist issue of,
::like, I, I, a lot of, I struggle with, like, should, do we need more space?
::Do we need more machines?
::Do we need a bigger studio? You know, to relieve those, how are we going to
::grow if we're waitlisted?
::You know what I mean? And so that's, that goes through my mind a lot of,
::but then, then going back to like, no, I like our space.
::I like the size that we are. So I don't want to, and I don't get,
::but I would say mostly it goes through my mind a lot is constantly thinking
::about how to improve things, improve everything,
::improve the quality of instruction,
::improve the equipment, add equipment,
::and not just more reformers, but we don't have a ladder barrel, right?
::And I'm like, do I want to buy a ladder barrel? Do I want to buy this or that?
::So I would say it's more...
::This ever-present feeling of just constantly contemplating what can I do better,
::you know, that then creates anxiety because then I try to go back to,
::okay, maybe, maybe not. Maybe I just leave everything.
::Everything's good. Everything's working well at the moment.
::Maybe we do move someday. Maybe we do need more square footage so that we can
::have 12 or 13 or 14 reformers in there.
::Yeah, I don't know. So, you know, that's. In terms of the ladder barrel,
::my experience of running one is that for most clients, like I'm talking your
::average 50-year-old out of shape,
::stiff, arthritic person, it's like there's like three exercises you can do on
::a ladder barrel. I absolutely agree.
::Yes. And I have one of my, I'm glad you said that because I have a couple of
::my instructors who are like, can we please get a ladder barrel?
::And I'm like, it's, you know, $1,800 or it's like, how are we going to make
::that? You could do glute stretches and side overs on it and that's it. Yeah, you know.
::Um, I agree. So that's, but then there's, there's always, you know,
::always those thoughts of how to, what do I, do I want to spend money on the business or do I not?
::But they do look cool. I mean, they do look really cool.
::And there are a couple exercises, I will say that you do kind of like,
::you know, swan on the ladder girl, you know, things like that.
::Right. My favorite is a thoracic stretch just over the bed. It's just incredible.
::And you can't get that. I can't get that on the small barrels.
::Yeah, exactly. But for $1,800 and how much space it takes up,
::it's like for two exercises, you know, is it really worth it? Yeah.
::In terms of your space, so what you've articulated there is the waitlist thing and the space.
::So broadly speaking, there are, I think, three. I'm going to tell you the number.
::Maybe it'll be four, maybe it'll be three, levers that you can pull there to
::get more people through your doors.
::And I don't think you need to add more reformers in the space,
::although that is an option for sure.
::So one thing is you can just change people's usage patterns,
::like we already said, and pricing is your main lever to do that,
::right? If you just charge more per session, like people will come to fewer sessions.
::And you don't have to do it for everyone, but you could do it for the top tier
::of people who are chewing up a disproportionate amount of your capacity and
::just say, great, if you want to come seven times a week, that's fine,
::but it's going to cost you this much, right?
::So that's one thing. The other thing is I noticed with your classes,
::I'm just looking at your schedule here, they're 45-minute classes, is that correct? Yeah.
::No, they're, they're mostly, we have one 45 minute class.
::I will, there's on Tuesdays. I know it's random Tuesdays at 1215 because it
::used to be a jump board class. And so we had it and I should actually,
::but most of them are 55 minutes. Some of them might even.
::I was just looking at the, yeah, there's the small group strength with Casey.
::Oh, and then there's, yes. And then the strengths training is actually separate
::from the equipment classes.
::So that that's my instructor who came from another studio and she they pay her
::you don't you don't sign up um through mind body on those they're on mind body
::but okay so yeah and those are i think 45 minutes yes but i noticed that your
::classes mostly are 75 minutes apart that you've got and,
::so uh you know you can increase the number of people that you can service by
::just putting the like putting no break in between those classes.
::So you could run one hour long classes on the hour, every hour,
::and you could run like 25% more classes that way.
::So this is my thing, which yes, you're absolutely right.
::But that I think that is what's created a really great community is clients
::are talking before and after class for 15 minutes.
::They get there early and they sit down and they talk to each other for 10 minutes.
::And I know that it's like, It's not benefiting the studio necessarily,
::but I think it has created... I think without allowing those 15 minutes,
::they'd have to be out of there.
::I mean, it'd be like, class is over, pick up your stuff.
::And we do have a little entryway area, but it's small.
::They hang out on the reformer. And I know it's an issue when I come,
::but then maybe... So I think a better strategy would be the pricing.
::Because if I took away those 15-minute blocks, we lose that social time. Well, I mean...
::I think there's, you know, I think it's worth exploring because,
::I mean, I've only seen photos on your website of the space, but it looks like
::you've got quite a spacious situation
::there with you've got reformers and chairs all in the same space.
::And, you know, it looks quite spacious.
::So, again, if I were you, what I would consider would be carving off a little
::bit of that space and turning it into a waiting area.
::We'd put a couple of comfortable sofas and some chairs and things in there,
::maybe a teapot and, you know, bowl of fruit or something.
::And I would make that the waiting area because I 100% agree with you on people
::socializing before and after.
::I think that's hugely valuable and it does build community and that does build
::retention because people don't, they want to show up not just because they've
::booked it, but because their friend Sally's going to be there and they don't want to let Sally down.
::So I 100% agree with you on that. But I think you can eat your cake and have it too.
::If you were to slice off maybe, you know, 20 square feet or whatever.
::I'm not really good with square feet because we do metric here in Australia.
::But yeah, a small lounge that's not cramped, but it's like, it doesn't have to be big.
::And just put some basic seating in there and some cup of tea and whatever.
::And then you can run classes back to back, but people can still arrive 15,
::20 minutes early, have a cup of tea, get changed, talk to their friend,
::read a magazine, whatever it might be.
::And likewise after class, they can hang around if they want,
::but that doesn't reduce the number of classes that you can offer.
::Yeah.
::Yeah. And you're, you are right. But that is,
::and I've had instructors tell me that they get, I think they would prefer that
::their classes were back to back, you know, and because instead they have,
::but I guess I've, I, it's kind of part of, I think what makes the studio special to me too, is that we,
::we are spacious and it is, you get to go sit down on your former and lay down
::for 10 minutes before the class start, you know, and it, I would,
::it would just feel different.
::That's that's where I think we get back to the boutique side of it you know
::in the smaller versus like club qualities which is on their 50 minutes you know
::every 10 minute turnover there and,
::no I don't know I'll have to I'll have to think about that that's gonna because
::I've and I've kept so the previous owner when it was for graces back in 2019
::I've just kind of kept things the way she did it too you know we have an eight
::o'clock and then we have a 9 30 and we have a noon you And it is these big, it doesn't make sense.
::You know, we should have an eight, a nine, you know, but it's the way it's been
::for almost 20 years now. Actually, she opened the studio in 2007.
::So it's been there since 2007, just changed to core qualities in, you know, 2019.
::And we have a lot of those, I call them my OG clients who have been there since 2007. Yeah. Yeah.
::I'm going to push back on that a little bit, if that's okay.
::Yeah, please. I would say what makes something boutique is not the space,
::it's not the square footage.
::It's the, you know, when I think boutique, I think high expertise instructors,
::low instructor turnover.
::The instructors know, you know, care a lot.
::Like they know your name and your pet's name and your kid's school anniversary and all that, you know.
::And whereas Club Pilates are a big franchise, I expect a revolving door of 21-year-old
::instructors who don't know my name or remember that I've got a sore knee or
::any of that kind of stuff.
::And even if I had a sore knee, they wouldn't know what to do about it.
::Now, I don't mean to cast aspersions on Club Pilates instructors.
::There are some awesome instructors there. But when I'm just characterizing the
::difference between what I think of as boutique versus kind of like, you know.
::Franchise globo gym whatever and so
::i think it's about the expertise and the
::personal attention and the care and the attention to
::detail and the relationships that you have
::not necessarily about the brand of equipment
::or the square footage or the any of that and
::so i i think people pay i mean
::i think of like think of some kind of artisanal i
::don't know shoemaker or makeup person or clothier
::or like imagine you go and they've got some kind of like tiny little space and
::there's cuttings all over the floor and it's like but they're a master of their
::craft right that's to me that's a boutique experience and they remember your
::kids birthdays and all of that like it doesn't i think the environment to me
::is not the core differentiator there.
::Yeah no and i agree with that too i yeah
::i guess i but i do think that there there
::is something about the um that time
::between getting to go in and you know sit on
::your reformer and not feel and just
::then we have these people who have their assigned machine they get there 20
::minutes before class it's ridiculous you know and they go sit down on their
::machines if they don't have their machines like that you know but so yeah i
::they that would just be a big change for them but change is good for everybody
::i guess maybe i don't know yeah it's something to contemplate You know,
::I'm not here to push you into doing anything you don't want to do,
::obviously, but I do think, I know from my own experience and also from coaching
::a whole lot of studio owners through this process,
::that if you were to make that change,
::you would, afterwards, you'd be like, oh.
::That was no big deal. Like it's totally fine. No one cared. Um,
::uh, and so I'm going to send you, I recommend you listen to my episode with Brian Darcy.
::He's got a studio called Redwood Pilates in California and he moved to the back to back.
::He's very small boutique studio there.
::And, uh, he moved to the 45 minute back to back classes and,
::and hasn't looked, hasn't looked back.
::So yeah, so listen to that. But yeah, so I think the pricing,
::how close you put the classes together, and also just obviously how many people
::you put into the class itself.
::And I think you could safely go from 11 to 12.
::I don't think there'd be any meaningful difference in the quality level there.
::I find 12, I think 12 is the optimal balance between intimacy and capacity.
::I think above 12, it starts to degrade, but I think 12 is a pretty good, solid number.
::And I see, I mean, Club Pilates does that. There's like, that's the most common
::number that I see in successful studios is 12 reformers. Yeah.
::I think that's the goal this year, too, is to add another reformer there.
::We do get spoiled that we did add one. We had 10 and then we just added the
::11th one to see like a couple of weeks ago, actually.
::And it feels a little cramped, but it's like we compared to other studios,
::we are very spacious, but we're used to having like six feet between each machine.
::And so we just we need to get used to this little
::bit of a tighter feel because it just yeah
::it doesn't make sense financially though well people you know
::i'm sure you've heard of hedonic adaptation and we get used
::to good things and bad things and we just normal you know
::like people who win the lottery are really happy but then a year later they're back
::to the baseline level of happiness people who become paralyzed
::from quadriplegia uh you know they're very
::unhappy but then a year or two later they're back to their same baseline level
::of happiness you know we just normal we normalize you know most things humans
::and so you know you'll totally be fine with squeezing in another reformer and
::having four and a half feet in between your reformers instead of six feet. Yeah, I know.
::Yeah. Is there anything else that you want to share?
::I mean, you've got a platform here. We've probably got like three or 4,000 Pilates
::instructors and studio owners who are listening to this over the next six months.
::Is there anything you'd like to shout from the rooftops or share?
::Yeah. Yeah.
::I, um, I think if there's anything specific that comes to mind, um,
::this year I did, or, um, I guess last year, I forget that it's January now,
::I connect with a yoga studio owner and we've had coffee a few times and that's
::been helpful to get to know other studio owners that it's, we don't need to
::all be in competition with each other.
::You know that then to talk about this you know to really be to have someone
::else to relate to and maybe not feel quite so isolated as an you know as an
::owner that it's okay to be friend you know I take at a couple other Pilate studios
::in Oklahoma City too I like to get out of my studio for my own practice you
::know I want to I go somewhere else so,
::I would say maybe just to encourage that that's acceptable, that it's like we
::can go take at another studio and if we can become friends with other instructors
::and there's plenty of clients to go around,
::you know, and it doesn't need to be all about competition.
::I mean, I do think a little being competitive is a good thing.
::And you, you know, you want to see your studio doing well.
::And I do sometimes get a little competitive of you. I'm one of my friends.
::I've known her for a long time. She opened a studio quite a 20 minutes away from my studio.
::But I see hers getting weightless. I'm like, aren't my people going over there?
::Oh, what's going on here?
::Yeah. But then it's like, no, it's great. I'm glad she's doing well.
::Everybody should do well. Yeah.
::So I don't know. I think that is one thing that would be great if we can normalize that more.
::I remember right before COVID, there was a studio in Chicago called Bodies and
::Coffee, and they were hosting a workshop and it got canceled. It was like May of 2020.
::And then I got and I was signed up to go to it and everything.
::And it was specifically for studio owners to get together.
::And so I don't know, maybe I'm sure that does exist somewhere.
::And I know going to conferences like ones and tour and things like that is a
::way to meet people. But I think that can help to, yeah, I don't know.
::That's kind of my goal to this year is I want to work on my own practice more.
::I want to go to take from other people and not be afraid to go to other studios.
::And so, yeah, I don't know.
::I'm trying to think to specifically just, I don't know.
::Of course, I can't think of it right now. I did have a couple notes of things
::that I wanted to talk about. but I think we got through quite a bit of them.
::And yeah. This has been a really interesting conversation for me as well.
::Like I've actually taken away quite a bit. I think that,
::connection between studio owners is a really underrated thing because it is
::such a lonely job essentially even though like you're like technically you're with people all day,
::there's a certain distance between you and the clients you and the staff even,
::doesn't matter how close you are that you i mean you can't share the stresses
::of being a business owner with those people so there's there's part of you that
::you have to kind of keep aloof from and maintain a distance and it's great to
::be around other studio owners where you can kind going to let your hair down
::a little bit in, in regard to that.
::And it's like, oh yeah, you know, everybody's got else, everybody else got the same problems.
::Exactly. And I remember thinking with bringing on a partner,
::like this, I want a partner.
::I want someone helping me and work. And then it's like, actually,
::actually, no, I think I'm going to share with myself.
::But, um, and yeah. So, and I, we get kind of stagnant.
::I, or, you know, when you're running a business and you how do
::you how do you not get burned out you know but it's really hard
::and but I think for me it's my own
::practice more than anything it's like you've really got to prioritize that
::you are staying involved and loving Pilates that's
::one thing I encounter with my instructors they stop taking class
::they start teaching they go from being these great clients and
::then they begin to teach and they no longer want to
::take and and but it's so important to
::keep taking and to me that's what keeps what
::it helps me but i guess with my you know like overwhelm or it's just like keep
::it in your body you know so and then it makes teaching so much more enjoyable
::and it makes you feel like you know what you're doing you know by running a
::studio you have a purpose you know i'm you know as the Pilates Center in Boulder
::says heal the world you know,
::yeah so um yeah thank you so much this has been a really great conversation
::and i'm sure people are going to find it valuable.
::Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you.
