Episode 330
330. How this husband & wife team built 2 thriving studios in 1 year - Laura & Sam from Form & Flow UK
Laura and Sam from Form & Flow Pilates share how they grew from one to two thriving studios in a year. They reveal the systems, standards, and teamwork that made it possible—and how they balance marriage, business, and growth without burnout.
Find Laura and Sam's studios here: https://formandflow.co.uk/
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
AdBarker - https://adbarker.com/privacy
Transcript
WEBVTT
::Welcome to Pilates Elephants. I'm looking forward to this conversation with
::Laura and Sam from Form and Flow Pilates in,
::Stratford-upon-Avon, UK, which I hope I haven't butchered that pronunciation.
::Yeah, welcome, guys. Could you both briefly just kind of introduce yourself?
::So, Laura, let's start with you. Just give us the really short version of who you are and what you do.
::Yes my name is laura and um i'm co-owner
::co-founder of former flow pilates um i'm a pilates instructor and studio owner
::and um i've been in pilates a long time for my adult life either a consumer
::better teacher and nagia um and i run the business with my husband son,
::yeah so i'm sam yeah from the business with laura um
::it's lovely it hasn't really been my life at
::all really up until uh starting business with Laura I've been
::uh worked in the tech sector really in sales most people
::I've done in my working life but um I've been
::learning a lot coming together to work on this business with Laura and then
::bringing what I know to the table and I think that's maybe what our secret sauce
::is but yeah that's us yeah well I really want to I really want to get into this
::the dynamic of how you two work together as a husband and wife team and the
::highs and lows of that um but first can we just start uh could you just give
::us like a quick overview of your business,
::like, you know, just the basics of what type of service you offer, where you are,
::you know, how have you been going, all of that kind of stuff.
::Sure. So in kind of its present form at the moment as studios,
::we own two studios in Warwickshire.
::We have one in Stratford, one of them, as you said, and then one in Warwick.
::Our main product or class is a small group of all math.
::We have six reformers in each studio, but we also have full studio circuit Cadillac,
::balance, one chair. We have a private and direct lessons on those.
::And we also have math blotties and bath glasses as well. But our main one at
::the moment is the small different form.
::Right. And when I was looking through your website and I was kind of preparing
::for this episode, your team is very large. I just kept scrolling down the page.
::So, yeah, I mean, I didn't count, but I'm guessing you've got kind of like 15 plus instructors.
::Yeah, about 15 kind of our main core team.
::We have a number who have like a considerable amount that work with us,
::that's probably something like between like 10, 50 hours plus a week.
::But then I also have some who have normal jobs and they do.
::So, you know, and you've got these, you've got a lot of stuff going on.
::So you've got reformer, you've got mat and bar classes, you've got even on-demand
::stuff that you offer, and you've got the full equipment setting.
::So I guess I'm going to direct this to you, Sam, because I'm guessing this is
::your side of the business.
::What is the rough sort of mix between those things in terms of like percentage of your revenue?
::You know is like reformer 99 of everything or like how does that kind of fall
::out in terms of revenue so i'd say
::the reformer is definitely the vast proportion of that it's probably 85,
::and then you probably got about 10 mat and bar classes and then maybe less of
::the on the mark it's very new it's something we haven't been able to flesh out
::as much as we'd like that maybe comes back to challenges when we come to that,
::having lots of things to focus on and keeping them all up to standard way and
::focus on another one, that's definitely a challenge we face.
::So I think it's definitely something like, say, the reformer is the majority of that. Yeah.
::And where would, and so you guys started in 2018, is that right?
::So yeah, I kind of was working as a sole trader, trading as Form of Flow.
::It was just me, I'm an instructor, renting out community spaces,
::events, working in gyms, the Instagram page.
::So that's when the Form of Flow kind of came about, just me doing it on my own.
::And the opportunity to open the studios came about 2022.
::And that's when I turned to you and said, hey, do you want to do this with me?
::Yeah, yeah. And I opened some spreadsheets to answer that question.
::And I thought we could. Did you open both studios in quick succession? Or how did that go?
::Yeah, so the first studio that was strapped upon Abramon, we actually bought
::out the current owner, the previous owner.
::And where it even came from was that Laura was the studio manager there and
::had been for two years to kind of gain that studio management experience.
::And then that lady wanted to retire.
::Um and we were already thinking you were
::already thinking you're getting to the point where i could do this myself i
::could manage i could manage my own one uh so
::that's where we're thinking to do one in warwick which is our hometown and
::strapping's only about 15 minute drive so it's it
::kind of felt like we could do both at once and once i had
::put the numbers together i could see we could raise the finance to
::buy out the other owner and then start up the one in warwick we
::kind of just just went for it in one so we got
::the keys to for the uh for stratford
::basically the final working day for christmas in 2022 um
::for both of them actually wasn't it we signed the leases on that final working
::day so it was a bit tense that day hoping to get his keys so we could get going
::over the christmas break get in there and paint and stuff um but then we actually
::opened the doors for warwick about,
::I think it was 1st of March. Yeah, 1st of March. Because we had to renovate and things.
::It was one of those where it's totally bonkers to take on two new studios at the same time, but...
::We, so again, you're very, like, you really, like, looked at it,
::and we thought that we could do it, and I was like, well, these opportunities,
::they're come about that often to many people, so let's be able to go, and it's paid off so far.
::What on earth possessed you? I just can't get my head around it.
::What on earth possessed you to, like, I can totally understand you buying out
::that studio and taking that opportunity.
::What on earth possessed you to think, like, oh, yeah, we could just open another
::one at the same time? Like, where did that idea come from?
::I think that's that well the idea to maybe start your own one in warwick was kind of there.
::Okay and you can talk in it through and through and do i
::have do i have do we think there's a customer base do
::we think that we you've got enough of a profile amongst people you've
::taught you've taught to pull in some
::customers straight away and then the the prospect
::of buying out the one in straffi came up and then
::i was thinking well actually there's revenue straight away that's an existing
::customer base we don't have to do anything
::to start with in fact do as little as possible
::don't rock the boat to make a smooth transition that's all really is
::all you've got to do to start with and i could already identify
::some areas where some quick tweets and i could actually
::get that profitability of what was already there up but without
::really you know changing too much kind of things like pricing structures which
::i'm happy to go into detail on but um just making them a little bit logical
::so that the profitability was there and it encouraged the right behavior with
::the customers so even a bit more straightforward to them of how they get the
::best value from us and so then i thought okay so we can have revenue straight away.
::And then that gives us a bit of breathing space to get Warwick started and get that going.
::But we also had a good situation in Warwick where I thought it's good to start
::now because there's no other studio around.
::So actually, if we get first mover advantage here, we can plant our flag with
::not so much pressure to compete and contrast with other offerings right in the
::town, which is kind of not the case now.
::So we've already been established for a couple of years and then it's getting quite competitive now.
::But because we're established we've got a good foothold that we
::can work work with uh to keep
::keep our situation our position as the number one
::studio but those facts is combined sort of meant it doesn't seem that crazy
::to do this straight away and the fact that there was two of us and you know
::we can split the workload here so there's stuff that he's doing over in stratford
::if one of us can go there and there's the stuff that means doing in warren someone
::could do them go there and do it. Whereas obviously, yeah, it's just one of us.
::That'd be very difficult. I can see how that would be really difficult.
::Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
::You've been thinking about the Warwick studio for a while and actually the Stratford-upon-Avon
::was the opportunity that popped up, which, yeah, so that makes a lot more sense.
::So let's talk about working together as
::a married couple uh i i
::work with my wife also we both run breathe education together and
::i'm i'm intrigued to to learn
::about how you um manage that
::so firstly how do you separate you
::know responsibilities and how do you make decisions in the
::business so we've been
::kind of both very different clear different roles
::and skills um Sam is but you're
::very logical statistics data driven you're
::a spreadsheet guy yeah financial management things um whereas I'm much more
::creative so I handle like the marketing the teachers and like instructor management
::and kind of the um where the business is going what direction will take.
::And the more creative side and i'd say i'm a teacher as well
::um so we have very kind of bit
::and i think we trust each other um to
::on each kind of thing like some trust me with my
::vision on the marketing and and there's some other how i deal with teachers
::and i trust you to know that the money's in the right box at the right time
::yeah yeah definitely that that clear demarcation and i think there's an element
::where neither one wants to do what the other or maybe doesn't even enjoy what
::the other does. I think that helps.
::I can see if we were both Pilates teacher, we both really want to be able to
::put our vision of the class content, the way it's presented, the way it's marketed.
::I can see how if that's two Pilates teachers, you want to put your own stamp
::on that kind of, that's why you'd set your own thing up, is to be able to do that.
::Not the only reason, but a big part of it is to be able to make your own choices.
::But that's where I don't have a
::sort of an opinion in a way i like to learn about it and understand it
::so that i have a clear sense of why why people are
::willing to spend the money that they do um because it's
::not a not the cheapest way you can exercise at
::all it's more in the mid to premium end
::depending on exactly what classes you're going to
::so i'm quite keen to understand what is it
::that makes people so willing to part with their money and what's
::made particularly performer that's that's quite
::amazing how excited people are wanting wanting to
::try it and jump straight in especially as that is the more
::premium end of the exercise market what you can go and
::do locally for a class i mean for example
::you could go and do a mac class somewhere in the
::village hall for six pounds or something a class whereas you know a reformer
::class could be 20 pounds per class so that's that's very interesting to me and
::why people would say well i don't want that six pound class i want that that's
::a reformer class and i think that's another thing why we can see this is the
::perfect time to set this business up is there's definitely a massive demand for reformer Pilates.
::If you want to do it.
::So it's worth doing it well. How do you...
::How do you navigate the inevitable, I guess,
::times when maybe you guys need to either give each other feedback that might
::be hard to hear or you disagree about something important, an important decision moving forward?
::How do you handle that side of the relationship, both from a business standpoint
::and also from a personal standpoint?
::Because then you've got to go and have dinner together and stuff afterwards.
::I think from a personal point of view i think
::that's words because in our
::relationship we're not we even when we disagree we we
::never sort of blow up we're always able to talk
::things through uh even when it's something
::contentious that we really disagree on so that
::kind of is translated into what we do
::with studios we might we can sit and talk about it
::and disagree and say no i just don't think it's right way to do things
::but it never goes to a point where it's just irreconcilable
::in in any conversation i think that foundation
::of what we're like as people together is the first point
::um and then in the from just
::purely from business decision making i think we found a good cadence with each
::other as we've gone on through experience of how to put ideas forward each one
::each person to the other and and how to critique an idea let's say on the other side of that how to.
::How to speak and how to phrase things so you're
::not just especially let's say you don't think it's a good idea you're not just
::saying no it's terrible we what we learn and we
::know each other well and how to say what about
::these aspects and frame it in the right way or preface it
::in the right way to say be prepared this is what i'm going to i'm going to start
::saying talk about these kind of things i know you don't like these kind of things
::i'm gonna start talking about them so you're kind of ready and i think overall
::we both have the same aim we both want us to succeed so however much you disagree
::on something or don't like the idea of doing something,
::if you if we can build that case together to
::each other and then together of why we should do something i think that's always
::going to win out in the end of for us we need to do that and there's lots of
::little examples you can go into where you've had to work on me and so you do
::need to do this this is a good idea and i'm like no that doesn't cost money
::and i think ultimately um.
::But you know both of our goals is together
::to make this a success and we trust that each person is
::acting in a positive way i think unlike a
::colleague or someone that you perhaps don't have this kind of
::relationship with he could maybe start to doubt
::that and get frustrated whereas i know when when sam's questioning one of my
::ideas i know it's because he's thinking for the greater good of the business
::overall and likewise when um your question is something i'm doing it's because
::the end goal is the same and we both want to put that effort in.
::We do disagree on some things, but not to a point where we don't,
::but it was into dinner and into nighttime. We're like, okay, well, that was work.
::At the end of the day, both of our goals are the same. We just...
::And I think going to challenges of being
::the owner of the business and
::also living together as husband and
::wife is that it's kind of can be 24
::7 there's this idea it bleeds into home life you can't
::just put it down we might be on the sofa talking about
::work it's not like we're going to the work sofa
::in there and the non-work sofa that would be
::a challenge not necessarily about disagreeing but a challenge for us
::is whether work time or work time off and
::is this kind of bargaining normal we were on our laptops last night at 11 o'clock
::at like we should be going to sleep but we've got into a conversation about
::something and we're just looking at yeah i think i think definitely myself and
::i think we both have it's kind of in some sense it's just how you how you look
::at it you could if you decide that it's a real,
::it's horrendous that i'm looking at my laptop but on a sunday night then yeah
::it will be horrendous it'll feel horrendous but if you look at it like i think
::what i definitely do i think you do of.
::Well monday morning 9 a.m i'm maybe i'm not
::having to trudge into work i'm not commuting to an office every
::day and someone else is deciding exactly when i'll look at work or
::when i won't look at work or what will what we're going to focus on i'm in
::control of all that sometimes that means um on an afternoon we'll put the laptops
::around we'll go out for the afternoon because we decided to and sometimes that
::means on a sunday evening we'll be looking at spreadsheets it's but the fact
::is we we get to choose when that is um and we have that perspective that Essentially,
::you sort of weave work life and personal life together and you get to choose when they are.
::And I think for many personally, I've found that fantastic.
::That change from work, sort of traditional full work, nine-to-five type working,
::to this sort of ownership model of working.
::That really suited me personally. So I think it's no problem at all.
::Yeah. It suits me. That makes sense. And I feel that way too as well with my
::wife, Julie, really work and personal life kind of blend into one thing.
::And it's like, yeah, we're both interested in work and we talk about work a
::lot because like we enjoy it. That's what I think about.
::So what are your goals for the business? Like what are you trying to,
::what would you change or what, you know, what is your aspiration?
::What is your perfect sort of future? outcome.
::We've obviously talked about this a lot like what the direction of the business
::is and you know do we how do we grow how do we grow what do we grow into and we.
::I've got a million ideas of goals and things I want to achieve and Sam is really
::good at kind of making those A come to life and also make sense of them and
::what is actually logical profitable and doable old um.
::But I think for now, like an easy thing for us or for people to assume we do is franchisor.
::That's good for that. Or we've got a really kind of solid brand,
::good reputation and a really short teaching team.
::We could easily just puppy cutter this in different towns.
::We'd probably never say ever, but we've probably decided to not do that just now.
::It's because of how the market is kind of booming, let's say.
::Um and i think for me
::one of the things that i have noticed with my experience
::in this world and also with the boon now is there's
::not much support out there for teachers um whether
::that be kind of like an event mentor or just you
::know a coffee morning for teachers to have that connection with
::other people you're kind of you do your training and
::then you're out there on your own and you go through all
::these little mental flips as like a new instructor whether you're working
::in studios or setting up your own classes and it's
::kind of that support is missing so that's kind of a little project i'm working
::on um just like locally like local events and then workshops and during meetups
::things like that um we're also looking at like diversifying through the brand
::so we've got this online platform that we just launched last year we want that to grow um,
::also as like a supplement to our current members like you know they can't get in them a holiday or.
::And then I'll if you've got a problem take this workshop buy that workshop online
::and that will help you sometimes do it at home and then who knows where that
::could go and there's lots of little pockets we think that we can,
::build the brand on without having to guard it in 10 different towns and yeah
::that's where we're at right now and so I'm sorry just to jump in before you reply there Sam so,
::that was Laura's creative vision of what you want, Laura.
::Am I going to get a spreadsheet answer from you, Sam, if we want to hit this
::level of profitability?
::Kind of, yeah. But also I was going to say we're hitting an interesting point
::of maturity where we're getting some predictability, which you can see in the numbers.
::So it's kind of,
::Making sure we continue that stability of performance for the core business
::of the reformer Pilates classes and build on that without taking our off the ball on that.
::That's kind of the big challenge for
::the next sort of year or so or going into
::two and three years is keep keeping that stable performance
::and incrementally taking it upwards in
::in that sense rather than having to need to go for a lot more customers but
::so that you can with that stable base you can explore
::some other product lines and service offerings without them without them necessarily
::needing to perform you can have you can be a bit more creative and innovative
::with things um which you have tried to do certain workshop and things and maybe
::they they aren't quite right pilates in the park is something we tried over
::and we kind of think okay that's.
::Because we had the stable performance it doesn't necessarily matter if
::that doesn't quite come off in the way that we made the vision was
::and that's one example that's like you've certainly got plenty
::of things to think and i don't sort
::of think oh here we go again um this is a good thing i think that
::it's good to be innovative and drive things all i'm
::basically that's where we kind of molt together is to
::i'm kind of trying to guide that creativity into commercial
::viability and so ultimately like
::why is it important to both of
::you to you know you both mentioned like growth and
::and that you know several times so that seems something that's really
::important to you why is it important to grow
::like to uh do you have like
::a financial goal that you're working towards or do
::you want to retire or sell the business or like what's
::ultimately from a from an owner's perspective
::like what is what is your ultimate end game yeah again
::that's another point where we've kind of it's gone quicker towards those we've
::achieved those goals a little quicker than i thought we might so in terms of
::financial stability when i wasn't sure quite it would work for us both to be
::able to live off the business the first goal was can both live off the business.
::Uh or will i need another income to work
::sort of part and part and within this pretty
::much few months it was pretty clear actually this is
::going to work for us both to live off it and then
::it's kind of more aspirational level
::of good can we not just live off it okay can we actually earn some level where
::we can have a bit more of a comfortable life like everyone's kind of looking
::for we're kind of hitting that cusp now where we kind of in the uk just the
::way the the um the tax rule work around uh how you take profit out of the business
::there's a certain natural threshold where if you aim for that um.
::It's kind of i don't know it's just getting into a bit like tax policy discussion
::where the government should maybe think about it of it's a sort of natural but
::arbitrary threshold where you might you might as well aim for that because going
::over that the tax becomes that much
::more so we kind of have hit that and it's kind of where should we go
::from here so at one point that's why i've been well let's go for
::stability to start let's maintain that at the very least
::and that gives us a bit of breathing space to actually re-establish what
::what the long-term goals is so you mentioned retirement
::we're not really sure we we've talked we're talking through it as we do harbor
::thoughts of maybe we'd like to live abroad uh for a period of time um so it
::might be we run studios for the next 10-15 years and then we look to either
::have them run self-sufficient,
::or we sell them and we have
::this another sort of form of income which is
::maybe where the law is built for teaching resources
::this kind of thing this is the kind of discussion we're
::still having really is exactly what the long
::long term you know 10 15 20 years is in the very short term it's one two three
::four five years it's keeping students nice and stable and the income the profit
::stable and predictable that's probably what i say i think yeah i think i'd agree
::like it's it's can we both make the living that we want to from this um.
::And we'll both enjoy it. I love teaching. It's my passion.
::I love being in the studio with the clients, with the teachers as well.
::And you love the flexibility. Well, you've always wanted a business.
::You've always wanted one. And then, again, this came about. So,
::yeah, you love the flexibility.
::We both kind of want to keep it going for as long as we can.
::I can't see myself not teaching karate.
::Yeah. I understand what you say about the tax thing there, Sam.
::I mentor a few steel owners in the UK and the government's really set it up
::so that you're disincentivised to grow beyond a certain level.
::That's a good word. That's exactly how I think about it.
::You're not giving me a reason to want to push into the next barrier. Yeah.
::What would you guys say? So getting into some of the tactical nitty-gritty of
::how you're running the business now,
::what would you say is working really
::well in your business i mean obviously reformer pilates is
::the kind of core element but in terms of you know your systems your processes
::your marketing your teaching like your client onboarding you know what would
::what do you guys feel is working really well that you've kind of got sorted
::out and you're like yeah we've kind of nailed that and uh it's it's just really
::working for us what what do you do what do you do well,
::i would say one of the main things for me is i've um we've we've got a really good teaching team,
::um and i don't know what it's like in australia but you have got this thing
::in in the uk now where it's kind of these kind of little cowboy courses like
::you know one one day tutoring.
::All of a sudden you're a teacher and you think gosh like you're a
::nice person and it's good potential but to me that's not
::quite the standard that i want for my studio right now
::that's that day and um i i
::really have put time into finding the right team so we
::have got a lot but they are all what i would say a really
::really strong standard and really passionate about what they do um
::and we've got a lot of time into the team as well um i
::we went in-house workshops together it's just
::like creative afternoons um we've got um one
::of my teachers is also a women's health videos so she's writing a pelvic form
::classes workshop for everyone um and i yeah i've got a lot of time and effort
::into making sure the team are happy with the work that they do for us i never
::force them to take a shift on or pressure them to take a shift on that doesn't
::work around their life um.
::And yeah having that team and also then
::that message has kind of trickled down to the clients
::that they know that i'm only going to hire the best or i
::have a standard of what teacher i'm going to take on the clients
::have really done uh appreciated that but they know that
::it comes one of our classes that they're getting
::they're in safe hands essentially i think that's the
::key word for me if i just look at the whole business is standards wherever
::you're looking in there there's a defined standard of what we're aiming
::for and we're always monitoring against it and sometimes
::things slip a little bit but that because we know what standard is we're
::immediately able to say right let me put some focus on that
::bring it back up to where it should be yeah whether that's the
::standard of uh of the experience level of
::the teacher the standard standard of the experience the customer
::gets not just and that's not just defined by the
::experience level of the teacher that's defined by how
::they interact with people as they're coming in the door as they're
::leaving as they're answering questions all these things go towards
::the standard of the customer experience whether that comes to
::me on the spreadsheets i've got my k i've got kpis around business
::and i know uh not just because i've got conditional
::formatting in the spreadsheet to tell me when it goes green or amber or red
::but i know when when we're going in the direction and then
::we need to put a focus on this it's slipping a little bit and
::that gives us the ability these to define standards everywhere.
::It gives us the ability to not not panic because there's always moments where
::something this isn't going quite right we've had a dip here and if you're not
::careful you i think we see it across other studios you maybe panic a little
::bit and the classic one we always see you always think okay they're not there
::panicking a little bit it's crazy discounts.
::Just without any thought to them there's not i can't
::see a reason of how that how's that going to lead towards nice full classes
::in the long term that's to me is the classic one and there's many other examples
::but i think our standards that we defined ourselves and agree upon um is what
::helps us not to fall into any sort of panic tactics and do something that might harm the business.
::So how do you, just on a nuts and bolts level, how do you filter for the right
::people and how do you hold those standards that you have for,
::let's say, the teaching quality?
::So, yeah, first of all, on the interview and like
::the level of qualification and experience um i i'm not afraid to take on a newly
::qualified instructor but i will work with them before we they go into the studio
::i was saying that as much as you need me and that goes for all my all my team members um and,
::i do pop in and see not to like observe and watch but just to see how they interact
::and i really enjoy when you know you can have a great teacher of all these great
::qualifications and it's y z and all that experience but it's another 50 percent
::of that's how they are with the clients
::are they talking are they talking to the clients are they getting to know them
::is there a nice fun new buzzy atmosphere in the studio um and i've kind of learned
::now with this management and the studio and to kind of go with your gut about
::teaching you kind of know when something's.
::Not they're not quite the right fit for us
::i can't explain it but i just know it and i i say to you like i'm
::not sure i let it be four months later we're not
::the right fit i think when you have
::that initial gut feeling i think we can bring
::it to the specifics which is we defined
::how we want people to be interactively in the class uh the
::styles that we have we've kind of tried to define them
::firstly so that the customer has as best
::as we can a sense of exactly what they're going to get from that
::class so it's less of a less of
::a kind of guessing game where you just go and
::for the customer and looking at which class would i actually enjoy to certain
::to some extent you've got to try it you can't can't tell you to full extent
::but i think those defining styles and so we've got something to talk with that
::teacher about rather than just saying you might not be the right fit you know
::you want some specifics and tangibles for that teacher because it's,
::it can become personal i imagine like i've learned a lot of kind of observing
::being part of this how you interact and i can see that it can be very it's a
::very personal thing your own style and then it's there's an element of it it's
::kind of a little bit performance i hope that comes across in the right way the
::use of that word performance but people have paid their money and,
::You want to give them a sense, a positive sense. So some of that,
::you've got to bring it to work with you.
::If you can't just rely on your mood on that particular morning,
::you've got to be ready to go. I see that's what I seem to see.
::Person's up, showtime. A little bit of that.
::I can feel that can be difficult to do consistently. There are three things.
::I'm sorry to interrupt. There are three things there that I'd like to just explore just a little bit.
::So firstly, Laura, there's this, what you said of like, not necessarily like
::auditing a class per se, but just getting really a snapshot of how the teacher
::interacts with the clients and the energy essentially in that interaction.
::And then there's a second thing you mentioned, Sam, which is the class styles and levels.
::So if I come to like a mixed level class, you know, with different teachers,
::it's the same level, you know, it's the same experience.
::And then the third thing I'm guessing based on what you've said is that you
::have KPIs based around attendance or some other metric that you measure.
::And so how do you find the balance point there for having the classes as uniform
::as possible so that as the customer,
::I know what to expect regardless of who's teaching the class.
::I know I'm going to get the same burger essentially regardless of who's in the kitchen.
::Um with you know balancing that with like the instructors you know like how
::much i guess my question is how much freedom do the instructors have to just
::kind of be creative and make stuff up versus how much do you say no you need to do it this way yeah,
::Yeah, so this is kind of what you're alluding to of these two styles.
::I don't go too much into it. We do have teachers from different disciplines.
::I've got classical teachers. I've got more kind of dynamic athletic teachers.
::I've got physiotherapists.
::And we did have the traditional beginner, mixed, intermediate, advanced.
::And what I was noticing, and with feedback from the clients as well,
::was a mixed level with a classical teacher is a very different experience to
::a mixed level with a dynamic athletic teacher.
::And some clients aren't suitable for
::athletic dynamic particularly if they're coming in always you know you
::know sitters knees shoulders all that um so
::we've now split up our class descriptions into
::if you're looking for a more classical blind we're not a classical studio we're
::a content studio but if you're looking for that more classically aligned class
::or a technical class you need to go for this one it's a mixed level class if
::you want if you want that burn and the fitness style and that dynamic style
::you need to go to that one so it kind of has been a signpost,
::um within that with the teachers i do give them a lot of freedom to be themselves
::um generally we are creative people as teachers and it's that i want to encourage
::that with them i want them to support them to be the best that they can be i
::do have a couple of like house rules if you will um.
::But i can kind of when someone someone will either
::agree with me on them or not and that seems like I don't like instructors to
::film when they're teaching um I let
::them to be hands-on I see if teachers all the time they're they're
::in the class and they're on their Instagram and I'm like no teach the class you're
::you should be I know is that a
::real thing like yeah I see it all the
::time on Instagram so yeah common sense
::with a coffee coffee coffee in one hand and
::they're on their Instagram and they're like oh my god teacher class
::you know I think that's when you come to standards there's nothing
::inherently terrible about that but it's when you
::come to standards these people are paying their money to get taught
::and i can see why someone might slip into the trap
::of doing that because i think this is good marketing and that shows people what's in
::the class but we need to find a place to do that yeah
::no i'm sorry i'm i'm going to disagree with you
::i think there is something inherently terrible about that because those clients
::have paid money to be in that class and you
::are you as the teacher owe them your full undivided
::attention like that you've paid for the hour and like
::oh yeah that's that's shocking like oh
::that would be like first first offense firing for for someone in my studio um
::yeah that's just yeah the only kind of thing um i just asked the teachers to
::look subjectively so i kind of have with those kind of standing exercises that
::are let's say instagram inspired um i'm not personally keen on things like that.
::I don't think there should be a group caller, even though we're only six people.
::So I don't allow standing exercises in any of our classes.
::Or if they're covering the class, they're not allowed to kind of go off for
::two finals. You meant standing on the carriage?
::Yeah kind of encouraged yeah but kind of the
::untraditional yeah yeah yeah i'm not
::i'm not a huge fan i'm here for creativity but i
::think let's look at it as fitness professionals subjectively is
::this the best way to get your client strong in a
::group setting what's he doing everyone safe yeah often it's
::a big priority so
::it's definitely it's definitely a more of a framework.
::For the teacher to work within so it's definitely i
::think the point you make is the one it's it's balancing
::these competing but important ideas of trying to
::market something in a consistent way so that when the customer's signing
::up to it it kind of says okay i think i get one buying here and
::then when they come to actually experience it it sort of lines
::up but equally one of the big values
::that teachers can bring to the table is their unique or their
::own personality and we do have plenty of customers who like particular
::teachers and that has a strong place that's important and that's
::another thing you can market is fitting yourself
::to the teacher so i think what we learned really is
::actually the the level focusing on
::levels as your way of describing classes is
::actually not quite the way not the way to fit
::the teacher and the customer together i think actually styles now
::that's the word we kind of hit upon uh it was the way to correctly match teachers
::to customers because you think the customer there for initial interactions they're
::just seeing on the website or they're ignoring the booking system they've got
::a description of the class to go on that's with the best one in the world you
::can't talk to every single customer before they book in.
::So how are you matching these these two together and trying to alleviate any
::chance of there being buyer's remorse because it's like i didn't think it would
::be like that i thought it would be a classical type class but actually i booked
::in with this teacher and turns out they're more of a fitness style well now
::i kind of know that out front and we only and i really i what i realized was.
::With the levels beginner mixed advanced these kind of
::levels there's like all in all likelihood you're going
::to have very in any given population you're going to have very few people
::that are truly advanced your majority of your
::customer base is going to be straddling bit
::beginner and mixed that's the majority so have
::that as the majority of the class and focus on the style so
::that's their choice and the path they go on is beginner and
::then into a form of mixed something that's mixed
::and then you and you can you can more easily identify okay
::we've got this group of people that are self-selecting oh the teachers
::are pointing them out they need an advanced class that's what's going
::to do it for them now which it will amend the timetable so that's flexibility
::on the timetable is what and how do you guys navigate as as a co-business owners
::you know sam with your i'm assuming you're tracking like capacity utilization and stuff like that,
::and Laura with the creativity and the human factor of the instructors,
::how do you navigate that, I guess, balance where maybe Sam, I'm guessing at
::the end of the month, you say, look, oh, you know, the Tuesday 4 p.m.
::Class is not really working here. You know, what are we going to do?
::You know, so yeah, how do you have that conversation with each other?
::And then how do you have the conversation with the instructor? Yeah.
::Yeah i mean we do we do look at things like this and what
::the first thing we do is look like the seasonality of it sunday morning's
::fight is it because it's father's day is that is there a.
::Marathon in the town that's kind of our immediate immediate
::kind of why that's right and we do look over time
::sometimes it's again looking at these levels and
::styles and do we have more beginners now do
::we have more mixed levels we not have no beginners and then we just
::kind of manage that week home week um and
::then guess it then if the classes aren't building
::up with them then that highlights an issue with the instructor um
::at that point i probably asked the feedback
::from the clients like i find i've got a really good relationship
::where it would be like oh hey do you and if you've tried your class how do you
::enjoy it um you know really kind
::of neutral question but just to kind of get get a
::little bit of feedback um but i
::say our first step from then when we've highlighted that there's a
::little bit of a disconnect is i want to then
::work with the instructor i want to understand
::how they teach how can i then promote them
::like are they are we marketing the right people to this
::person because every instructor is unique and not
::every instructor is for everyone but they will be for someone else and i
::feel it's my job to find those people that do love that
::instructor so that's kind of our first part of
::course like okay let's work together how can we how can
::we build this class up so it would be like i'll feature them on our marketing and
::our instagram and we're talking about them in studio oh
::have you tried this instructor's class oh they're really good and
::making sure that the marketing matches that
::instructor and then if it says we're.
::A prolonged period of time that we've tried all these things
::of you can and the numbers
::still aren't matching up but then probably have a bit more serious conversation
::of yeah this class isn't quite working oh
::before that sorry we'd probably say let's maybe let's take that class off perhaps
::we don't have the capacity let's advertise for a private lesson or try and use
::that instructor somewhere else it's probably so yeah i think it's definitely
::first of all an attempt to a collaborative conversation it's the first thing
::to point out is that we are.
::We don't have a source we don't have a model whereby uh there's
::any sort of profit sharing if you like with the teacher i know that is
::the way some studios work um so in
::terms of the responsibility to put bums on seats
::that's that rests totally with us um so we're not going to the teachers and
::sort of saying if you need to help you get these classes for them at all that's
::that that's definitely our our responsibility so for the first point of course
::we're thinking right we need to work on marketing and what we're doing as a
::business to promote this teacher this style.
::Um so in the first instance it's is there
::really a trend i think with your question i'm assuming you're
::you're talking about scenario where maybe that it shows
::the trend of low numbers and we've maybe tried a
::few things maybe a different style of
::class so then we tried a few different things maybe that
::style doesn't suit that teacher actually and we could
::actually build a class up better if they were doing
::something more aligned with how they like to
::teach but that that only works if it's collaborative we have had situations
::where we've come to this point and the teachers kind of made it clear i do things
::one way i don't want to adapt how i teach okay fair enough that's your right
::to do that but that's going to make it difficult for us to,
::find a new way to do things to get the numbers back
::up and in some scenario that has led to a partnering of
::part of the ways so i think the first
::the first instance is do they want to work
::with us on that or do they really in my
::mind i was thinking just want to turn up and teach which is fine that's that's
::a perfectly acceptable way to go about your career if that's how you want to
::to do things i think for us that's not going to suit the way we work or what
::we're trying to offer to our customers and being able to adapt to what our customers
::are kind of giving us as feedback so I think that's the first thing if.
::Working together with the instructor and trying to work out,
::like I say, more specific factors, the seasonality, that can be a reason.
::What's our overall time-table mix? Maybe we just got too much of that class
::and it's nothing to do with that teacher.
::It's because we've got too many of that class on, so our mix isn't right over
::the week or over that particular evening.
::So we bring those facts into play as well.
::I mean, I have to say I take a slightly different view.
::I think certainly there are times in the week that are harder to fill,
::And regardless of who's teaching, you know, Thursday at 8pm is never going to be your peak class.
::So you have to take stuff like that into account. But when you look at an instructor's
::utilisation over the month overall, like not all instructors are created equal.
::And, you know, sometimes I think it is, even when you pay, like on a per class
::basis, it's not the instructor's job necessarily to be on Instagram,
::you know, singing and dancing.
::Getting people in the door, but it is their job to teach an amazing class so
::that people are like, holy cow, I'm coming back to that class for sure.
::And if you've got too many of a particular class on the timetable,
::well, the ones that don't fill up, they're the least popular ones for a reason.
::So why is that particular class not full and all of the other mixed level or
::whatever are full? You know, what's different about that one?
::So I want to ask now about like what is –.
::I know in any business, you know, the saying I really love is like,
::no business is as good as it looks from the outside or as bad as it looks from the inside.
::And so I know that in every business, there are myriad things that are going
::to kind of irk you and frustrate you.
::And maybe you look at your website and you think, oh God, I hate the website.
::We've got to rebuild that or whatever. But it's like, you just never get around
::to it because there's just so much to do.
::So there are all of those little kind of niggles and which if you're not in
::the UK or Australia, A niggle is like a slight painful thing that kind of just
::nibbles away at you in the background.
::Sort of like a sore hip that's not bad enough to go see the doctor,
::but it's like it's just kind of annoying.
::So, yeah, I know there are myriad little things like that, but what's the number
::one thing that kind of stresses you guys or is like something,
::a puzzle that you haven't figured out how to solve it yet that is like preventing
::you from getting to the next level that you want to get to?
::I think the biggest thing where I think the reason it is comes down to maybe
::a lack of skill in the air is maybe things like really nuanced,
::like targeting of customers and really segmenting and understanding the customer base.
::I feel like maybe not being able to wrestle with the software well enough or
::not being well versed in it to really get more than an overview of,
::numbers in who fall into each bracket but really get to
::that point where you can understand the customers more more more in depth i
::think i don't say we're bad at it but that's one where i feel like i'd like
::that's what i'd like to get better at and why why do you why do you feel that's
::important like what do you feel like not being able to do that is holding you
::back from achieving I think.
::It's when it comes to the decision-making. So when you have a tough moment and
::the numbers are down or something, working out what the specifics of who's dropped
::off and being able to interact with the customer base.
::And I think one part of it is adding value to those customers.
::If I was to talk to them, unless I had their customer profile in front of me,
::I'd struggle to really or I wouldn't know the specifics of them or the customer.
::And I think that's one way you can add a lot of value is to know customers and
::understand them well, particularly when you're talking about,
::I don't mean in a fluffy sense, I mean, you know, their injuries,
::which is really important, of course, what their physical history is.
::And that's one way to stand out and show quality of knowledge and experience
::that you understand about them and can properly advise on what they should do
::and what they shouldn't do.
::And I think why I think that's an issue I want to work on is in these tougher
::moments or in a moment where you want to grow, well, in what direction?
::What do you need more of? If you don't understand it more specifically,
::how do you know what to aim for?
::So is this – oh, sorry. Can I just ask that before we – yeah.
::So just before we move on, can I just understand, is that about retention?
::Because you mentioned like if classes aren't filling or if someone's dropping off or whatever.
::Or to what extent is it about like how to grow the timetable or the revenue of the business?
::And to what extent is it about preventing people from dropping off and churning out?
::It's definitely about retention, retention of the core.
::I'm knowing, for me, it's like why. I want to know why are you retaining them?
::Because if you're suddenly to the point where you're not retaining them and
::you never knew why in the first place, I think,
::how do you know what to do next if you never knew why you were good in the first place,
::and maybe that's sort of slightly unattainable some it's kind
::of you were the only class in town so i went it's not that deep
::some some aspects of it is probably like that but i think
::there's a lot that's a little more specific than
::that and i think it gives you just knowledge it's information really okay
::make decisions so have i understood you correctly sam that the the problem you're
::trying to solve is how do we retain people longer and the solution that you're
::looking for is like how do I understand the customers better so I understand
::why they're staying slash not staying.
::Yeah i think that's definitely i think i'm always saying we're trying to build,
::we're trying to find customers who want to be consistent and can
::be consistent um either in
::themselves and also financially that's one aspect so this
::is why i always try not to think let us go down the route of
::short-term thinking like discounts or offers because the
::person that's attracted by that is probably not
::quite so focused on being consistent because if you're
::thinking about consistency you're thinking about consistency that
::person's thinking about their long-term value but they're thinking well if i buy
::20 and get this rate on them i know
::i'm going to use those up so that's actually better value than if i
::buy this one if i get one discounted
::to half price well there's only one i want x many
::because i'm going to be consistent which one i'm trying to find those people because that's
::i think how you actually build a strong successful business you've got
::a good base of consistent people and that's what's good for your health as well
::to be consistent with it so it kind of fits together with what's the point in
::any way of doing it well it's actually good for your health as well right and
::I do want to move on to what you were about to say there Laura but can I just
::reframe that for you can I give you my thought on that yeah definitely.
::I think, like what you said there about understanding the customer,
::I think is important for the instructors.
::Like the instructors must know your clients and their injuries and their likes
::and dislikes and which reformer they prefer to use and all of that.
::You know, what their dog's name is, all of that stuff.
::That's vital and that's a big part of retention, like that relationship where
::the clients feel not just like the class is good, but the instructor actually
::knows and cares and likes them.
::So that relationship's vital for retention, I agree. but I think it's only one
::part of a much larger strategy on retention.
::And what I see in the data on the studios that I'm associated with is it goes
::all the way from your marketing.
::Are you marketing a quick fix kind of thing?
::And like you say, the packs that you sell, are they focused on short or long term?
::But also just the conversations, the onboarding process that you have that does
::it talk about long-term solutions with the client and then just looking at the
::actual trends of attendance and,
::you know like there are so many I think that
::the way to solve it as a studio owner is like number one you have to have the
::instructors right and that's Laura's job there but then it just in terms of
::look it's more about looking at trends and you can't necessarily save each individual
::client but You can look at, okay, when we introduce this onboarding process,
::churn goes down, or when we have this pricing incentive to sign up for a longer
::membership or whatever, churn goes down.
::And so you can basically look at more of the trends rather than the individuals.
::So that would be how I would approach, like, I don't know if you guys have a
::churn problem or not, but if you've got more than 10% month-on-month churn,
::I'd say, yes, you could improve it.
::Yeah i i'd say we have that quite
::a solid group of people we're just
::launching a fairly a loyalty um program
::at the moment for people that don't know behind the classes with us um and
::we've got about 90 members on that
::um and you know a good about same
::amount just about to pass over um it's just
::kind of yeah understanding i think it's maybe when
::i'm talking about understanding more things in more detail or maybe i talked a
::bit too much about individuals but i think some of
::my data is a bit too rudimentary it's kind of top
::level occupancy data and i think that's where in terms of getting better and
::there was one question in your pre questions of like examples and you said well
::is anything you would ask for coaching wise if you were thinking i couldn't
::really think of something but now you've hit upon it it's probably that sort
::of thing of getting that perspective of from people who've been doing it for a long time.
::Of how to do better data analysis and what other kpis at the next level down
::to focus on like churn i don't think i have really any strong data that's specifically
::about churn rate and there's one aspect of it is maybe about data analysis but
::there's other also about you know wrestling with
::um software and booking systems to get this data out properly i end up just
::making very basic spreadsheets that kind of side of things let me try and add
::some value here in a moment for you And I'm sorry,
::those of you who are not numbers people, but if you're not a numbers person,
::you're listening to this, you need to know your numbers.
::And that's probably a big part of what's holding you back in your business. So suck it up.
::So I work with all the studio owners I work with.
::We create a KPI dashboard, which is a fancy name for just a Google sheet,
::which basically tracks the performance and the life cycle of the studio all
::the way from sort of essentially,
::brand new client to, you know, net profit at the bottom.
::And so we start with, and I'm just going to reel this off. And if you guys want
::to kind of listen back to this and write it down or whatever.
::But basically we start with your ad spend at the top, how much you spent on,
::whether that's on flyers or PR or Google ads or whatever you use,
::then the number of first visits you have in the studio.
::So people who stepped foot into the building for the first time ever,
::you know, in the month. And we do this on a calendar monthly basis.
::Then you have signups, which is the number of people who bought a long-term
::pack, like a 10-pack or a 20-pack or a membership.
::So basically people who converted from like, I'll give it a go to like, yeah, I'm in, you know?
::And then you can track with that, with those three numbers, that's kind of your acquisition process.
::You can track, well, your ad spend to your first visits, that tells you what
::it costs you to get someone in the door. That tells you whether your ads are working.
::And then your first visits to signups, that tells you your conversion of like,
::once someone comes in, what's the experience like?
::Is that compelling for them to go, oh yeah, this is exactly what I need.
::I really need to make this a part of my life. And that tells you about the quality
::of the service and the classes and everything that they get.
::Probably also tells you something about your pricing and stuff as well.
::And so we have KPIs for that. So first visit to sign up should be 50% for a
::large group studio, 80% for a more bespoke studio.
::You guys are kind of somewhere more towards the bespoke end.
::So I would say you guys should be more like 60%, 70% I would expect.
::Like for every 10 people who walk in the door, I would expect like six or seven
::of them to buy a membership.
::Then you have attendance and capacity utilization.
::So we aim for like 80% to 85% capacity utilization over the month.
::So like for every 10 places you have available in class, like eight or eight
::and a half of them actually used by paying clients over the month.
::And that tells you whether your schedule is optimized. compromised um if
::you got too low capacity obviously you're burning profit because
::you're paying for classes that are you know half empty if it's
::too high then you're compromising your service people get
::cranky because they can't get into the classes they're all waitlisted and you
::know change rooms are clogged up and all of that kind of stuff so you want to
::aim for like 80 to 85 is what i've found is optimal um where the clients are
::happy and you're making as much money as possible um and then you look at that
::also on a per class and per trainer basis each month.
::So you're like, okay, overall we're at 80%, so it's good. But the Monday 7am
::is actually only at 40%, whereas the Monday 7pm is at like 100%.
::So it's like, you know, we can then, like you guys said, you can kind of maybe
::cancel that class and put another one on directly before or after the busy one.
::So you can kind of shift that around.
::Then we go down to, and then you also track that on a per instructor basis as
::well. And that gives you like who you need to coach and whatever.
::And then you go down to essentially your churn, and that basically is the percentage
::of your members who cancel or don't renew on any given month.
::And there's always going to be a non-zero number of people who churn,
::because people move house or lose their job or have a baby.
::Stuff happens in people's lives that's outside of your control.
::But there's also some amount that is within your control.
::It's to do with the convenience of the booking process, the convenience of the
::schedule, the quality of the classes, how friendly people, all of that stuff
::plays into it, how the community, all of that stuff.
::And so what we find is like 5% is excellent, 10% is not bad.
::Anything above 10% means that you can improve that and you can,
::so 5% to 10%, I don't think you can get much below 5% because that's just the number of people who's.
::Life changes over a month or whatever. So 5% to 10% is KPI.
::And if you've got more than 10%, you've got a problem, you can fix it.
::And so 10% would be like, okay, if you have 90 members at the start of the month
::and you have like nine cancellations or nine of those people don't renew their
::pass or whatever, that's a 10% churn month on month.
::And so you're not just looking at the total number of members,
::but you're looking at the percentage of people at the start of the month who
::were members who canceled or didn't renew.
::So you might've got nine new people and lost nine people and
::so your number of members still stayed the same but you still had 10% churn
::because you lost 10% of those members and if you hadn't lost any of
::them you would have ended up with 99 members instead of 90
::so um so we would look at that churn number and that really tells you about
::basically the the experience and the and the results that people are getting
::in in this in the studio and so if that's i mean if it's above five percent
::there's an opportunity there but if it's above 10%, it's kind of like a flashing
::red light you need to fix.
::And that's going to limit your growth because if you lose 10% of your members
::every month, and just say your advertising generates 10 new members a month,
::well, once you get to 100 members, you're going to lose 10 a month just through churn.
::And so you get 10, you lose 10. So you're never going to grow beyond 100 until
::your churn goes down or your advertising goes up.
::So what that does is then there's a really simple equation you can use to calculate
::the lifetime value, like the average stay of each client.
::So if you've got a 10% churn, that means on average, 10% of your client's going
::to leave every month. So on average, you'll have 100% churn over 10 months.
::So in other words, your average client lifetime is 10 months.
::Now, of course, you might have people who've been with you for five years and
::other people who leave after one month, but on average, people are going to
::stay for 10 months if your churn is 10%.
::And that tells you, well, if your average client pays £100 a month and they
::churn out after 10 months, they're going to pay you £1,000 total over their lifetime.
::Right. So I'm sorry, I'm going so deep into the nerd factor spreadsheet,
::but, but, but this is, this is the stuff of, this is the stuff of how you analyze
::the performance of the studio to know where we, where you can improve.
::And so when you look at that number and you go, okay, we're making a thousand pounds off each client.
::And then you go back to your ad spend and you look at, okay,
::we spent X amount on ads and we've got X number of first visits and we converted
::X percentage of those to signups.
::And therefore it cost us, you know, 50 pounds to get someone to sign up to a membership.
::It's like, great, we spent 50 pounds, we make 1,000 off that person.
::So that's a really good return on ad spend. And we could actually spend more
::on ads because even if we spent 100 pounds to make 1,000, that would still be a great deal.
::Or vice versa, you might say like, oh yeah, we're not making enough and therefore
::we need to adjust, we need to increase our lifetime value of that person by reducing churn.
::So if you reduce churn from 10% to 5%, the person stays
::20 months on average so that 1 000 pounds turns
::into 2 000 pounds so you double your lifetime value by
::a five percent decrease in churn so it's pretty substantial um
::and so yeah from there you go into just some of the financial metrics like you
::know um labor as a percentage of revenue and spend as a percentage of revenue
::all of that and there's kpis for that but yeah so basically does that churn
::stuff make sense to you sam would have any sort of questions or thoughts on
::that no it definitely made sense And I'm thinking, I'm like,
::some of that I'm doing in spreadsheets.
::And some of that we kind of do a eyeball check, just running through certain
::parts of the booking system.
::But we don't, yeah, that's another level of maturity we never needed to get
::to in terms of if we're going to grow, like we've been talking about.
::It's kind of like from where to where we don't know where we are we're
::at we don't know what that sort of churn is so that that's the
::kind of things i'm interested to learn about so i'm
::not trying to look at i'm not trying to reinvent the way i get
::this has been done before and i'd like to hear how people
::are doing it and how what they use to do it so i like
::software i like automating things i don't want to be having to
::get you know wrestle some numbers out of software which i kind
::enough to do it the most yeah well a lot
::of the a lot of the booking systems do make it hard
::to get that number and there's a couple of ways you can get the churn so you
::can some some software have like just a cancellation report that you
::can just run which is pretty easy other ones you can look at the total number
::of members at the start of the month like on the first of the month and then
::you tag those members and then of those members how many are still a member
::on the last day of the month so you can then then you can impute the cancellations
::and even better you can when i to find members,
::you want to define people who have an active pass or membership.
::So if someone's got a 20-pack, you know, I would want to include them in that
::because I want to know, okay, how many people ran out of their last 20-pack
::and then didn't renew it?
::Because that's also essentially a cancellation, right?
::So I prefer the members at start of month, members at end of month report,
::but some software won't let you do that.
::And so the kind of hacks you can do, I mean.
::And you should be able to print out or print out, you know, export to Excel
::or whatever, a list of people who have an active pass as at XYZ date.
::And then you can just literally go down and count 1, 2, 3, 4,
::5, 6, 7, you know, and figure out how many you had on the first of the month
::and how many you had on the last of the month.
::And then you can just figure out your cancellation from that.
::And if you're half decent with spreadsheets, you can probably just create an
::automated formula that's going to calculate that for you.
::But it's a really, really valuable number to know because that tells you,
::so much about the lifetime value of your client and you
::can literally double the value of your client and hence double
::the value of your of your business by reducing churn
::by just a few percentage points so it's like such a massive lever that
::most people don't really think about a lot so yeah all
::right so nerd factor over um and i'm
::sorry i've kept you guys quite a long time here but laura i do want to hear
::you were about to you know share something about what your what kind of keeps
::you up at night or what you feel is the most the biggest kind of frustration
::or the biggest thing that you need to unlock to to you know to to reach that
::next level uh that you want to hit.
::Yeah i guess um for me again
::it comes on that we've got very different roles within this because i'm
::i'm the one that's kind of on call all the time and
::even though we were saying i don't it's it's actually really beneficial that
::we've got this kind of 24 7 business to get to
::choose when and when I want to work but my
::job is a bit more kind of um attached to
::time so I I am a
::teacher I do teach but I try not to be on schedule too.
::Much then when an instructor says well or you know I'm
::able to either a react or get
::myself into the studio to cover um and
::sometimes I do find that quite challenging like I'll
::have my day planned out of all my responsibilities things I need to get done
::and I'll get a text hi Laura sorry I'm I'm sick I
::can't come in today and then i've got 20 minutes to get
::myself you know up and into the studio and
::then my work then piles up till another day and um
::whilst we've kind of set the system up
::that way and that's something that we we've both
::agreed with i needed to set back to be able to do that
::to keep the class consistent to keep the classes
::consistent so the clients still have the class and we're not losing revenue
::and pissing off our clients because the process comes a long time um
::it's it's quite difficult for me
::to then kind of let go of that control of what I thought my day was being so
::then actually I'm now teaching 12 hours of classes back to back and then I've
::still got you know emails and although there were a few days yeah that's the
::point of day yeah being that safety net yeah that's.
::Okay we either don't run the class or laura teaches it
::it's kind of the last line of defense we haven't
::really found much of the solution to that it's just it's
::just so it kind of goes in goes in waves for
::a while we'll be absolutely fine lots of consistency and
::then we'll have a few weeks suddenly where we just they're just
::dropping my flies and it's like what what's
::what's in the air at the moment they're like everyone's all just
::you know my car's broken i can't yeah my bike
::tire just burst on my way to the class you know it's
::the yes the thing things like that i find a bit of challenges
::that the the kind of the day-to-day humor
::side of it the buckstock to be like i also have the instagram account
::on my phone and once i have someone that helps me with
::the marketing and the instagram i get the dms like you
::know i get tips of the teachers all the time so it can feel
::sometimes like i don't get time to actually switch
::off and i love what we do of course but everyone
::needs like a couple of hours yeah i can just i can
::just relax now and then yeah i do find that a
::bit of a challenge sometimes i can feel i can get
::a bit overwhelmed yeah i think that's something where we're trying to work
::on solutions for and maybe not quite getting there yet of solutions
::that extract laura properly and
::not not have a message coming through and stuff
::but yeah i think that like and if we're going away
::i'll say to the team like we're going away or i'm away for
::two days all your messages to me before this
::day and then i'm out of office and that seems to.
::Be well yeah trying to get ahead of it seems to.
::Work quite well yeah also i think because they know that i'm.
::Not here they are good our team are brilliant but
::they're like hey well i can't really call this because laura's not not here
::so i don't know if they do that it.
::Might be that in that sense it's probably no different to any business that's
::like that's managing people whatever business you're in it's people are people
::are humans to be completely classitude about it there people have things that
::go on in their lives and it means they can't always be fully consistent but
::that's running business that's running any team i guess.
::Is there anything else that you would like to you know share with you know people
::listening to this podcast or,
::you know, anything else that you'd like to discuss?
::I don't know on the spot now. I think,
::one thing I do find interesting about being part of the Pilates world is maybe
::not why I wasn't expecting so much is the sort of community aspect of it between,
::teachers and between owners.
::So, there's people that Laura talks with and chats with who are owners of studios
::in the same town and you'd expect you know,
::I just would expect that no one talks to anyone. It's certainly my experience
::of working in tech sales. I would not be talking to other sales team of competitors.
::I'd just have coffee and chatting about the industry and stuff.
::No, no, that's not what would happen in my previous life.
::But that's something I find interesting and I think is pretty good.
::And I think, for example, this podcast and any others like it,
::just ways to network is, I think, if any,
::I would try to get everyone's to do that more if it's possible even if it's
::just reaching out directly that direct message to another another studio owner
::and just say i'm having this sort of issue you know how do you tackle this and
::just see how it goes and have that conversation yeah i think that's something i.
::I would definitely say to someone getting into this industry
::and you know it just depends person to person and that
::and then i think the connections i have with other studios they're
::not like in the same town they're like you know the town five miles
::away we're not like on the same street necessarily um
::it's a lot but yeah um is that
::we all we all have kind of a genuine respect for
::each other as well and like when i when i
::messaged someone i'm like how's hold your august hold your numbers
::like they know i'm not trying to fish out and see how
::they are doing i'm i'm kind of trying to gauge is this
::a trend across the industry i'm not
::trying to you know that and then it's it's also really
::just helped me have someone that I can go to and just they
::understand the Pilates and human like I have news for a
::lot of it that we do obviously went a lot of the venous and then I've got someone
::else who understands like the human side of it and like the passionate Pilates
::side and yeah you know like I'll text my instructor like oh this instructor's
::applied for my job what are they
::like um and that's that's kind of really helpful as well so yeah things,
::I say, if you were to start a studio, find your network outside.
::It's a really lovely community of studio owners and teachers.
::It's been really great talking with you both. I appreciate you taking the time
::and sharing just the honest reality of running the studio.
::I think people listening to this will take a lot from that. And,
::yeah, it's been really good. Thanks very much for coming on.
::No, thank you for having us. No problem. It's been great. I think we've learned
::a lot as well with your data research.
::Yeah, definitely. I know what time's going to be doing tonight now. Yeah.
::Do you have any downloads of the packs or anything?
::Great. Yeah. It's been quite a pleasure having us. No problem, yeah.
