Episode 331
331. 100 First Visits/Month With $0 Ads - Cassie & Henry from Sunny Space studio
Cassie and Henry from Sunny Space Studio share how they grew their reformer studio in Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada, to $65k a month within a year - without spending a dollar on ads.
They break down how they attract over 100 first visits per month through exceptional client experience, brand consistency, and word of mouth. Plus how they train loyal clients into instructors, create SOPs that scale, and keep classes sold out with clear standards and warm service.
This episode is a playbook for studio owners doing $10k+ who want to grow fast, without chaos or burnout.
Check out Sunny Space here: https://www.sunnyspacestudio.ca/
And on IG: https://www.instagram.com/sunnyspace.studio
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Transcript
Welcome to Pilates Elephants. I'm here with Cassie Clark and Henry Gill.
::Welcome, guys. Thanks for having us.
::Yeah. Yeah. And you guys are in Kelowna. I've learned how that's how you say
::it, even though it's called Kelowna. Yeah.
::And we're here to talk about your studio and some of the extraordinary things
::that are going really well for you and maybe hopefully some of the challenges as well.
::So can you just briefly kind of introduce yourselves and tell us about your
::studio you know where you are what you do who you serve roughly kind of where
::you're at in terms of the business mm-hmm,
::Um, so I'm, I'm Cassie. Um, I, we opened Sunny Space just over a year ago, back in June, 2024.
::Um, I previously lived in Australia, Henry's from Australia.
::So I was there for five years and, um, was just inspired by how many cool studios
::are over there and how far it's progressed.
::Um, over in Canada, we're kind of behind on a lot of things, including fitness.
::So there's a lot of opportunity here so when I came back to
::Kelowna um there was a huge opportunity
::and at the time there was only one or two
::studios open um and none of them really targeted a
::younger demographic so that's kind of where Sunny Space came
::into the mix um I do teaching uh teacher training uh I'm kind of in the business
::a lot doing all the teaching and kind of hands-on stuff And then Hen does the
::back end and he's kind of the face of the business actually at the front desk.
::His Australian accent really goes far with us and Canadian people.
::I don't know about that. I guess, yeah, my name is Henry.
::Kind of surreal being on the podcast with you, Ralph, because I remember Pilates
::honestly was not on my radar whatsoever.
::Even three years ago, I was working in marketing and branding.
::And I always recall hearing your voice because Cass would have your podcast
::on when we sort of had the concept of doing the studio and I was always like, what's this all about?
::And yeah, it's cool to be on the podcast now.
::Um, and Kelowna is, it's, it's interesting.
::Well, before I talk about Kelowna, we have this kind of thing in Australia,
::which we call the cultural cringe, which is, you know, we think that,
::uh, this I've, for years, you know, most of my adult life, I've thought the
::Australian accent was kind of like cringable, you know.
::Um, and that our cultural achievements are very, very poor compared to,
::you know, the other great countries of the world and uh
::it was yeah it's funny um when i first went
::to study pilates in canada i
::stopped pilates hq in in toronto i thought
::i'm going to the mecca i'm going to the center of you know the epicenter of
::of pilates and i went there and i was like i was very underwhelmed yeah
::i was like oh we're actually doing it better yes
::and like even now the bigger cities in canada
::they're getting there but i'd still say that they've got
::some work to do for sure yeah um and
::so yeah tell us about Kelowna it's I've never
::been there it's it's in BC on the
::west coast of Canada sort of near Vancouver right
::it sounds like it's kind of like a cool hip you
::know town is yeah tell us a
::bit about Kelowna uh yeah it was I think
::it was known for being a retirement town at one point but it
::is um booming now there's a lot of
::people moving in from the bigger cities just because it's a lot more affordable um
::it's a university town as well so we get
::a lot of the university of british columbia okanagan students here which is
::great so a lot of younger crowd um they call it the colonifornia of canada just
::because it's so hot in the summertime but you still get that snow in the winter
::but yeah it's four hours east of vancouver um i think the population is about
::200 000 now so it's growing fast.
::Offers a great lifestyle balance here as well, like great golf courses. The lake is fantastic.
::The weather, as far as Canada goes, is pretty easy in terms of your winters
::and you get those dry, hot summers.
::So as far as Canada goes, like the weather is pretty desirable.
::And like Cass said, it was very typically either like a retirement or kind of,
::I guess like a slower town.
::But since the university has kind of invested a lot
::of money and the college locally as well it's it's really
::kind of taking off as a desirable place for younger people to work especially
::in like this kind of post era of like people being able to work remotely um
::a lot of like people that we know have moved back but maintain their jobs in
::vancouver or toronto or wherever they were situated before.
::And, and so give us a little snapshot of your business.
::The first, one of the first things I want to dive into is your working relationship.
::Cause I think there's some really interesting things there that I want to discuss,
::but just give us a snapshot of your studio.
::Like how many classes do you run? What, how many reformers do you have?
::Roughly what's your revenue? How many staff do you have? That kind of, that kind of thing.
::You want to go ahead? Yeah. So we have, we actually cut it back since the summertime.
::I think we're at 57 classes now, but we were at like 61, so quite a lot.
::We found growth fairly quickly, so we started off with a pretty basic schedule,
::you know, four in the morning, four in the evening, and then had to keep up
::with the demand, so classes were added very quickly.
::Right now, we have a roster of 11 people. That includes front desk and instructors.
::Um I'd say you know we are
::fairly picky with the people that we hire and bring on
::board and we don't have a very high turnover which is great so
::um the people that have been with us since
::the beginning are still with us and um you know
::we were appreciative of that and it's like family now um in terms of revenue
::I mean we vary month to month obviously like Kelowna is very seasonal So the
::summer times you see kind of a lull as people go on vacation and put their memberships
::on hold. I'm sure there's a lot of places like that.
::But obviously busiest months for us are January, New Year's resolutions.
::And then you've got your fall back to routine.
::Kids are in school kind of situation.
::So on average, we're probably bringing in about $60,000 to $65,000 in revenue a month.
::I love that you've cut back from 61 to 55. Me too. That was a lot.
::And because 55, I always think of 55 as kind of like the practical maximum for most studios.
::So that's fantastic. And when you say you open with a basic schedule of four
::in the morning, four in the evening, that's by my count, that's like 40 classes,
::four zero classes per week.
::I always think of like 20 as being a good place to start for a brand new studio.
::You know as a minimum you know like if you have less than 20
::it's really hard for prospect or clients to find you
::know sessions that work for them um but 40
::is pretty heavy how did you go initially like
::did you have enough demand like how long did it take you to when
::you opened you've only been open a year how long did it take you
::to break even just from a cash flow perspective honestly
::the landscape i think is really important in this conversation
::because at the time um club pilates was the
::only group reformer studio in the entire town
::um and sorry and new movement as well um
::which new movement is fantastic they just have like a smaller kind
::of studio do a lot of work um based on
::physio recovery lots of things like that so there wasn't a
::huge group reformer studio or anything like that
::at the time so i think the time when we
::opened up it just opened at a time where there
::was a massive void in the market at that moment in
::time so i think like we there was absolutely a
::naivety when we when we opened the studio like we
::really had no idea we just put the schedule that we thought made sense um and
::like thankfully like pretty quickly like we were getting we sold like we had
::a pretty aggressive intro offer as well um i think we we sold a heap of it i
::think we sold over 250 intro offers in the first month.
::Like it was correct the first month was insane like
::um in terms of just like new faces coming
::through the studio um and honestly yeah
::the team we only had four instructors one of them was only doing
::one day a week so it was pretty much just um three instructors running like
::a pretty full schedule for a long time um without us realizing that there was
::any other way to do it what was your insane intro offer what was your aggressive
::it was it was uh 89 for two weeks unlimited,
::and people were doing um 14
::classes they were yeah it was they were months and again just like again with
::the landscape the only other offer um as far as i know like was but i think
::the only other offer you could do at the time to like do a group fitness pilates
::class on a reformer was Club Pilates and they do the 30-minute free session and that's it.
::It's a goal. Yeah, we had a lot of people say they had done like the 30-minute
::free intro but, yeah, we kind of, you know, it's just not enough,
::I don't think, to fall in love with the practice.
::So I think it looked like good value. It's interesting that you're saying there was a naivety.
::My understanding was that you meant you guys were naive but it sounds like you
::made a very strategic decision and did a lot of things right.
::We'll take that because we were testing it.
::Yeah, when I say naivety, I think like we did it, we planned a lot as much as
::we could in terms of the brand and stuff, but things like schedule and pricing and classes,
::we really just based that on Cass's like experiences in Australia and just thought,
::you know, this seems to be the way to do it.
::This is what we're going to do. there wasn't like a massive understanding of
::how that would go or yeah what was going to work and what wasn't going to work
::and thankfully like from the beginning it kind of did work.
::All right. I want to, I want to talk about your working and non-working relationship,
::uh, you know, because you guys are a romantic couple as well as business partners.
::Yeah. And I'm always fascinated by that, partly because I'm also in business
::with my wife and we work together every day,
::but also because just from a romantic partnership aside, I think you guys seem
::to have a very effective business partnership.
::Um and you have complementary skill
::sets i see a lot of people going to business in the
::pilates world where there's two people with almost identical skill sets
::they both love teaching pilates and so
::um there's the they there's uh
::often a big gap in the skill set of the
::ownership team and a big and blind spots in
::the skill set of the ownership in the ownership team whereas you
::guys have a lot better kind of you
::know complementarity there so firstly uh
::what you know had you said you know henry you've
::got a background in marketing and and in social media
::cass you're the you're the pilates you
::know part of the partnership yeah um how
::did you how did you first kind of negotiate or
::agree on your spheres of influence you know when
::you when you started out and has that evolved over time i think
::it just he likes design and
::social media i don't so that was easy and
::then i would love to see him teach on our former we're trying to get him there
::but i don't think that's going to happen either so i think we had interests
::that we were already wanting to do and it just so happened that they were the.
::Opposite to each other um so there was no negotiating or like you're going to
::do this it's just kind of like Kind of evolved very naturally. Yeah. Yeah.
::Okay, great. And so how do you then make decisions?
::Like if there's a...
::I guess, yeah, what is your decision-making process for the sort of small,
::medium, and large decisions?
::I think we have a lot of trust in each other when it comes to decisions that
::are outside of our realm.
::Like, I'd say, in terms of design, like, I will always have my two cents and
::pointers that I think that should be changed.
::But ultimately, like, he's the expert in that field.
::So I'm not going to try to overrule that.
::Um same with me if i'm adding a class to the schedule he might ask me a few
::questions to make sure that i'm making the right decision but ultimately trust
::me enough to make that decision.
::Yeah i would i would agree with that i like i
::think we i think we have like a we have a shared vision
::for what we want the studio to be in terms of like the
::longer term the exactly what we want it to be but
::the smaller decisions is where we kind of give each other i
::would say some trust to just be like hey this is your field like
::I might ask Cass and be like are you sure that this is
::the right class that we should be putting right now and if she all that
::might all that might do is maybe make her really rethink
::and then if she's a hundred percent I'll you know I'll back
::her a hundred percent and same way for me but the only time we would check ourselves
::is maybe it's just like a good thing to be like hey have you thought about you
::know x y and z and then if you have it's like well then if you believe that's
::the way to go then you know I'm not going to question the small decisions that
::ultimately add up to be the large vision.
::Have you had a situation where you just were not in agreement of the best path forward?
::Uh i would say i like nothing major
::like i don't think any like there hasn't been there's you
::know what there has been one actually i would definitely say um i'm
::a little bit more potentially risk averse and cas is
::more like she's she's which i
::like appreciate like i was a bit more reluctant to leave
::my body so quickly whereas cas was like
::this is something we should do like we should step on it really like we
::i want to make this switch to um mariana
::tech um and i think like we had some disagreements
::there about timeline and stuff because you know
::the business in my mind like it was functioning it was working
::and whilst there were some issues like i just didn't want to shake
::up the tree too much whereas cats was just like we've not this
::is we've got to get rid of it and it was turned out to be a really good decision and
::so how do you resolve a situation like that where it's
::not really core to either of your expertise yeah
::and i do do you keep working through it.
::Until you're both 100 aligned or do you get to a
::point where you just kind of agree to disagree and commit to doing it
::anyway i actually think we wrote out a pros and cons list yeah
::if i remember correctly i think we wrote down all the
::pros and all the cons and then talked about it and we're like okay this
::isn't the worst thing yeah we made the switch um and
::obviously if it was completely outside of our scope we would
::probably seek a third party to help us make a decision um if
::it's something way out of our comfort zone but um for the
::most part yeah we just try to talk it out
::really and usually i feel like with decisions like that
::there's always one party who is leaning
::more heavily to their arguments so whilst i was you know for me i was like i
::just don't want to shake up the tree but i agreed with cast that there were
::issues present whereas Cass was basically a hundred percent we need to make
::the switch so she was leaning harder so I was happy to be like all right well
::let's let's go with that then yeah.
::Yeah. So how does, and how do you approach those interactions?
::Like, does there ever come a time where you, you know, you give each other feedback
::about something and someone takes it personally and gets cranky or like,
::is that an issue for you guys?
::I'm happy to give my feedback. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, I think most of the time
::Cass has given me feedback, it's usually pretty fair, to be honest.
::Like there might obviously in the moment there's times where you'll be like,
::I think that's not fair and then you kind of sleep on it for 24 hours and you're
::like probably shouldn't have been a little bit better there.
::I'm yet to give Cass some feedback maybe once or twice in our entire time.
::But I mean, I think she's got a much more difficult role in this business than
::I do just because she's delivering the product and decisions happen in the here
::and now live with people.
::Whereas mine is, you get a lot more time to plan things out and whether that's
::design or anything, there's so many checks and balances with execution and stuff.
::So yeah, I've got to give her a little bit more leeway, I think.
::Uh-huh yeah another thing and i don't you know
::i don't know anything about whether this applies to you guys
::or not but yeah in general i follow
::a bunch of designers on social media and one
::thing that they consistently say is like in design
::is where like people who don't know
::design usually feel that they know enough
::to have an opinion you know like so clients will often say no i
::don't like that color i don't like that logo i don't like that design whereas
::when it comes to like you know flying a jet airplane or
::teaching pilates people who don't know how to do it don't
::feel like they're entitled to an opinion about it you know
::yeah for sure yeah
::i think i think with design like the quickest way to figure out like and to
::get people on board is you know if you put something out and it's received well
::then it's pretty quickly you just go well that seems to be that's the direction
::that we should go in um and like again casper's majorly involved Like she came
::up with the name and all of that and had like,
::she was like, Hey, this is like the kind of vibe that I want.
::These are the colors that I like.
::Um, and once we started putting some stuff out there and it was being received
::well, then it kind of just reinforced like, Hey, this is the direction that we want to go in with.
::With the brand and how do
::you guys navigate just the the the boundary
::if if if you have one between personal and
::professional like do you have any kind of like no talking about business
::after 6 p.m or something yeah we're trying to
::get better at that i think we we're so hands-on right
::now too so it makes it challenging to turn off work
::brain um our goal eventually
::obviously would be a little bit more hands-off and we're not dealing the mundane stuff
::day-to-day and all the things that need to get done so um working
::towards not being so hands-on which would hopefully give us more
::time to you know be a little bit better at
::our personal relationship yeah um we're definitely
::getting better now where it's like okay we're on the couch watching tv
::we're not checking emails we're putting our phones off to the side and we're
::not talking about work until tomorrow um at the beginning that
::was really tough obviously new business it's kind of you got to deal with the
::problems as they get thrown at you but um yeah we're
::working on it i wouldn't say it's the best no i think i
::think we think like something we're talking about at the moment actually like
::is um we work from home like we don't have
::an office at the studio and i think that makes it very difficult
::because we literally work around the kitchen table so
::um in our apartment you know like the
::it's all open plan so your your laptop is always inches away from your fingers
::and you know emails come like that's just the way it is caskets an email coming
::straight through to her phone you can't help but look at it so it's definitely
::a massive thing that we want to work on because I find it very difficult to not.
::You know separate to separate those things and do
::you want to separate those things because it's a
::source of stress to you or do you just
::is there just more of a should i think i think
::there's a difference though between like talking or stressing about
::the things that you know no one really wants to deal with but they need
::to be talked about versus we went on a date on friday
::and we talked about like the vision of
::the business and like where we see it going and exciting things
::that are coming up on the horizon and that's nice like
::i like that that that can stay it's the
::like oh so-and-so's membership didn't go through like we have
::to email that person just that kind of stuff that
::we need to stop but i love the the passion of
::the business in itself i think um i get a lot of love talking about that with
::him so yeah yeah that's a really good uh distinction i like that the vision
::and the exciting stuff versus like yeah did so-and-so's payment file or whatever
::yeah yeah um yeah great way to spoil a date.
::Um all right and so you know another thing that because we've been working together.
::One of the things that's really impressed me is how
::well you've aligned your team and your instructors so
::you know tell me about your firstly how
::do you feel you know how do you feel that's working and secondly what's
::your process for for for creating that
::alignment um honestly when
::we first opened I got really lucky I didn't put out any advertisements
::I'm a I'm a big believer in what you're seeking will come
::to you so um I had all
::four of the instructors that we originally hired reach out
::to me before we opened um which
::was awesome and all four of them happened to be a really good hire
::and obviously they all came from different backgrounds so we
::had a certain way that we wanted them trained we put the
::time and the love into training them up the way we wanted them trained
::and they've been with us ever since um in terms
::of you know new hires and stuff we have our
::core team who have been with us since the beginning and then any other
::hires have come with to us from being
::a member first which i think is
::so important because right off the bat they understand the culture
::we want to create they understand the classes we want to deliver so it's
::easier to hire from within than it is to hire from outside to someone who's
::never been to the studio before what is your definition of alignment you know
::like when when you say you know you had a certain way you want people to do
::it like how how much in lockstep are the are the teams.
::I mean, like, they're actually, personality-wise, they're all really different.
::But, like, my definition of great alignment would be that we know that when
::we're not there at the studio,
::we can have full faith that the experience people are getting is an experience
::that would be the same if Cassie was there or if one of our other instructors were there or.
::You know. Yeah. They genuinely care. Yeah.
::And that's not questioned ever with them, I think, and that makes you feel good.
::So caring is really really important i'm
::100 with you there but i know a lot of studio owners
::whose team care but they all teach completely
::different styles like you know one's classical one's contemporary
::one's fitness based uh one's super
::creative one sticks to the same repertoire every class one
::teaches a beginner's class you know one level another one teaches begins
::class at different level so you don't you guys don't seem
::to have that issue at all yeah how do
::you navigate guide that so i actually have guidelines for
::the classes so um when they get hired or
::or i'll send them the guidelines the guidelines include
::the movement patterns that need to be included within
::the class and then i give them a class sample with like
::hundreds of hundreds but lots of exercises
::you can do within those movement patterns so say
::for instance we're doing like a lower leg strength class
::they have to hit certain movement patterns and then within those
::movement patterns are many exercises they can they can choose um and then we
::obviously do lots of training making sure that they understand progressive overload
::training the failure um all those fun things so that so that we can actually
::deliver something that's going to work um across the entire schedule no matter
::who you go to they're all following the same guideline.
::And you you so you said so it's what
::strikes me cassie is like a
::lot of this stuff you just seem to see as self-evident
::and like yeah what else would you do but like trust me like
::most people don't look to it the way you're doing
::um that how do you you know was it an issue for you because for for a lot of
::studio owners a big part of the challenge of of building an aligned team is
::assuming the role of leader and saying to people who are already experienced
::instructors, hey, I need you to do it this way.
::I know you've done it this way for the last five years, but I need you to do
::it this other way. So was that an issue for you at all?
::I come from the background of being in a leadership role.
::So I would say that it wasn't, I would actually, I take that back.
::It was definitely intimidating. We had some instructors who had been teaching way longer than I had.
::And, you know, being in front of them for the first time, training them how
::I want them to be trained was definitely intimidating and I think
::now I've kind of gotten over that hump now because I've come
::to know them and they you know respect me and the way that
::we do train in the studio and but I definitely think that at the beginning it
::was very intimidating and I think you just have to be very confident and sure
::of what you're teaching them um if you start to be wishy-washy and like second
::guessing yourself they'll pick up on that so if you're confident what you're
::teaching I think they'll follow.
::And where did that clarity of vision come from? It sounds like you had that
::right from the start before you even opened the studio.
::Well, I took my certification in Australia and I was a big gym girly.
::So I love strength training. And the one thing that I noticed about Pilates
::is that you would go and then once you hit a certain level of strength,
::you kind of just plateau and you wouldn't see much progress after that.
::So how to incorporate strength training principles into Pilates without it being
::like you're doing sets and you're doing it three times each exercise.
::I don't like that kind of training unless it's obviously a smaller group.
::It's very hard to do that in 12 performers. But somehow figuring out how we
::can get people progress over a long period of time without having to switch on the routine. Yeah.
::And how do you, you know, you said you do a lot of training.
::How do you do that? Do you just have like a regular session where everyone gets
::together? Do you audit classes, a bit of both? Do you do one-on-ones?
::Do a bit of both. Yeah. So I'll do, I'll audit classes. I try to every quarter audit classes.
::Same with training. Summer's hard. So we haven't had one in a couple of months.
::We just did one actually a couple of weeks ago, but we'll try to get together
::at least once a quarter and go over.
::I'm always learning too, which is exciting. So whenever I learn something,
::I'll bring that to the group. So I by no means know everything and I own up
::to that. I'm not the know-all.
::So I'm constantly trying to learn more so that I can help progress our instructors.
::But yeah, and then I'll do one-on-ones if they ask. If I feel like they need
::one-on-ones, then I will do that with them.
::But a lot of the times people will just ask like, hey, do you mind sitting with me for an hour?
::Just having some troubles with class planning or whatever it may be.
::So just being really hands-on with the instructors and being someone that they can approach.
::We also, like one other thing I think that's been really helpful is three out
::of our five instructors now were clients who have 200 plus classes at the studio
::who had never done Pilates before stepping into our studio.
::So I think naturally, you know, and then when they went into Breathe Education
::to do their training, they had already, a lot of them had already done 100 plus,
::you know, 200 plus classes.
::So I think they already were coming to CAS. You know, we didn't have that thing
::where they'd been teaching a style for six, seven years and we're asking them to adapt.
::That's the only style that they know and have received.
::And they already enjoyed, obviously, because they had a membership prior.
::So it was really easy to know that they actually believe in what we're trying to do. Mm-hmm.
::Yeah, that's such a great model of staff,
::you know, like a staff pipeline, because not only do you get those people who
::are already like true converts to what you do, but they also see you,
::Cass, as a leader and somebody that they look up to.
::So naturally, they want to get feedback and approval from you.
::Yeah. So I think, yeah, what a fantastic model.
::What do you guys feel like...
::You know, you've had like an incredible journey so far. 12 months in,
::the studio is pretty close to maxed out.
::I know you said you've cut back, but 55 classes a week is still,
::you know, I would categorize that as maxed out or very close to it.
::You're doing fantastic revenue. You've got a great team.
::You know, you work together really well. I mean, is life truly perfect?
::Like, do you guys put your pants on one leg at a time?
::Definitely not. Definitely not. what what
::what's what's something that you that you struggle with
::or something that is is a challenge or even
::just something that irritates you about the business like what's something
::that that you would you would change if you could oh i
::think like for us it's our first time um
::owning and running a business so i mean we talked
::about this with you in our in our mastermind but
::um just having systems and
::building systems because i have in my head i
::know what i want to do but it's getting it out in
::a way that I can give that to someone and be like okay
::do this you know so implementing systems
::so that if we do decide to expand in the future it's
::more of a copy paste rather than you know it's
::chaos we don't really know how to make what
::we work in Kelowna work somewhere else so I think
::systems would be a big one for me yeah I agree
::yeah um um yeah i'd 100 agree with that systems for sure um and also speed it
::like i think like learning to be a little bit more patient like um with rolling
::things out because i think you want to do things super fast like i always want
::you know but you have to be a little more patient with how things,
::you know roll out yeah i don't i mean i know we've talked about both of those things but i think um.
::You know there's there are moments in history and like you said like you had a lot of,
::you had a lot of factors going for you when you opened this
::studio little competition you know huge demand
::you know like right place right time with the right offer
::um and yeah that's a
::moment in history that's not going to last forever you know fast forward five
::years there'll be a dozen pilates studios within a block and
::you know more commoditized and whatever yeah and
::so one thing i've learned you know because i had
::a moment like that when we started doing facebook ads in 2016
::i was like oh this is like super easy just literally put
::up an ad and people come and buy you stuff easy ads and i didn't recognize at
::the time that that was just a moment and it wasn't always going to be that easy
::yeah and so i think you guys now do have you're at a moment where like you can
::make massive progress by moving fast,
::then that opportunity is not going to always be as good, you know,
::because early competition will open up, Pilates will go off the boil,
::you know, whatever will happen.
::Yeah. No, I agree on that for sure. Yeah.
::What are you um like how
::do you spend your time you know like i know
::henry you're on the front desk yeah cast your teaching but like how much time
::are you working in the business and what are you just like what's kind of the
::day-to-day of you guys um my schedule looks a little bit different than hen's
::i'm i'm in the studio a lot more i actually used to have i think it was,
::25 classes teaching um plus all
::the admin stuff which is just not sustainable as a business owner realize
::that very quickly so I'm down to 13 hours a week now which I like and I love
::teaching so I don't want to get rid of that I really enjoy seeing everyone and
::being in the studio but I think outside of the business I'm as soon as I get
::home I'm usually on the computer until about 6 p.m.
::So I would say I don't know 45 hours 50
::hours a week yeah sometimes yeah yeah I would
::I probably similar obviously i i do
::about i don't know 16 hours on the
::front desk at the actual studio and then outside
::of that is yeah just lots of time in front of
::the computer um i think what
::i try and spend most of my time on is just the brand like
::um and how we can just keep making the
::brand better like i really focus on that element of
::it and i think cast focuses a lot on the
::actual uh logistics and systems and
::ways that we can improve things yeah and
::a lot of events a lot of events yeah and so
::what is your marketing sort
::of strategy and how how
::is it working like how many first visits you're getting per month on
::an average basis uh first visits per
::monthly average about around 100 maybe 120 or something like that and i so and
::i i mean i could i can hear the studio owners out in the stratosphere going
::holy 100 yeah i mean yeah i would say like.
::I don't know yeah it would be around that i mean summer you
::get a lot of people visiting kelowna and then winter you have
::a lot of new students coming in so i do
::i do give a lot of credit to like the business
::and the strategy but also i think the circumstances that
::we're in and the kind of nature of this city in terms of the seasonality and
::the way it is kind of like people visiting i think the i think the population
::almost doubles over the summer it's a huge tourist town so you get big influx
::in the summer and then in winter you get a huge influx of new students every year.
::So I think you get a great kind of turnover of fresh faces.
::Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, I think the, one of the foundational principles
::of, of starting a business is.
::Open up your hot dogs down outside the ball game you know or outside
::the garden till am it's like that's easy to sell
::hot dogs and you guys have definitely done that
::but uh what do you do for
::you know how do you let people know about you oh and
::we actually have never not done any paid advertising.
::Which has been uh i mean
::that wasn't our goal to go into it we were like we were wanted.
::To do super well with the brand and our organic social media
::it's kind of just been word of mouth and it
::sounds weird saying that out loud but yeah it's
::we haven't really had to do any paid advertising it's just
::been word of mouth really strong brand people love the brand they're
::loyal to the brand they just want to buy what we sell i
::mean i think you you said it before i mean like i'd you
::know overnight you know facebook ads your cost
::you know per lead can just disappear overnight
::things can just blow up like i think if
::you don't have that solid brand it doesn't matter
::what you do like you're just always going to be chasing shadows you
::guys have mentioned that like half a dozen times yeah strong
::brand yeah what do you mean by that specifically in in
::my mind that means that every single touch
::point that you have with your brand is
::done to the absolute maximum that you can possibly do
::whether that means the way
::that the website looks the way that emails are coming through the
::way people are treated when they come into the studio the
::way your packaging looks for your socks or your hoodies or whatever it is that
::you may sell how they're displayed you know just all of those little things
::that I think like stack up to show that I think the audience looks at that and
::says these guys are making a serious investment in trying to do the absolute best that they can.
::Um, and I think all of that contributes to your, to your brand.
::So when you, when you work, when you, when you think about that and when you
::work on it, I'm assuming Henry, that's mostly your department, right?
::I'd say, I'd say, like, I would say I have the, uh, quote unquote,
::like hard skills in terms of like, I know how to use illustrator and bits and
::pieces, but I think Cass is just as, um, like responsible for all of those things as I am.
::Yeah. So how do you, you know, give me an example of how you...
::You know manage or
::improve or test like how do you know if the emails
::are going out right or well like i
::i guess like in a like a good example might
::be like our merchandise which has gone pretty well since we've
::started it um you know i would
::say typically you see like a gym putting up
::like a you know a t-shirt or something and you
::know it might just be they've gone to the first local you
::know t-shirt supplier that they can find and it's just
::like put your logo here or something like that and the way
::they've advertised it is just you know like it's just it
::just gets put up and it's in gray or black or the fit isn't
::right like I think Cass and I like we try
::to look at what would we want to
::wear what would we want to buy what's the who's doing this at
::the moment the absolute best and is it
::within scope as in like do we have the time and the money to
::actually execute something like that and if we can we'll always
::try and do that and if we think oh we want like we we
::didn't sell any merch almost for the first eight months
::and i think that's because we were just like we we can't do
::this how we want to do this like we don't want to just you know
::i think i see businesses not just in fitness but
::lots of places they open up and they already have like
::a full rack of you know merch and all this stuff before
::they've even opened their doors and i think um just
::because you can doesn't mean you should i think you should wait until you
::can execute it yeah as well as you can yeah and.
::I think too and then once you put something out.
::That is cool and you know people waited for
::it the urgency becomes a lot higher so now we're every time we launch something
::new it sells out so quick so i think it's a supply and demand uh thing as well
::yeah but i think people know that if we are going to put something out it's.
::It's been yeah it's like we made sure it's quality, like we've tested it, like,
::Um, so I think all of those little things matter more than people think.
::Paradoxically, by focusing on quality and long, long-term thinking,
::you've actually accelerated your short-term growth. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
::What is your process for converting people once they come in as a first visit
::on your intro offer into a long-term client?
::I would say we're definitely not a sales focused business in terms of how you
::might traditionally think about gym sales, you know, like phone calls, follow ups.
::I remember when we onboarded Mariana Tech, they have automation set up for you
::and it's like five day, 10 day, 15 day, 20 day.
::And we just said, can we just like turn them all off and we'll add them in if
::we need them. I think for us, it's like the minute that someone walks through
::the door, obviously, you know, you know, they're a first timer.
::And then the first job is the role of the front desk person to just immediately
::make that person feel really welcome, super comfortable.
::Get all the information out of them that's required for them to be set up to
::have a great class so do they have injuries what's their history like what's their experience like.
::Um and then phase two of that is them introducing them
::to the instructor and the instructor basically just takes them through you know
::very personally sets them up on the reformer um goes through all of those kind
::of questions kind of asks about what their goals are and then yeah yeah and
::then yeah and then sophie coleman said this best and i just recently did her
::strength training workshop from studio levels in Byron Bay.
::She talks about adherence and consistency and how, you know,
::you're more likely to stay consistent to something if you feel like you're valued
::and welcomed and, you know, you enjoy what you're doing.
::So the first five classes that someone takes with us, we want to know their name.
::We want to ask them questions. We want to say their name in class, encourage them,
::give them praise, you know, that sort of thing that makes them
::feel like hey i belong here you're welcome in
::this community and then from there hopefully they love the
::classes as well you know you can try to um try
::out all the different types of classes and stuff but i mean ultimately it's
::how people feel when they come in that makes them come back again and then from
::there you know you implement the other things like progressive overload and
::trained failure that will get them results but for the first five classes we
::really focus on adherence and what makes someone adherent to design.
::That's in line with current science on behavior changes.
::The first goal is habit formation. After you've got the habit,
::it's easy to crank up the intensity and get the results. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
::What, let's, I just want to circle back to what you said about your challenge,
::Cassie, being processes and Henry, you kind of endorsed that as well.
::Yeah. What it, what it, you know, it sounds like you already have a lot of processes
::in place in terms of like,
::you've got a pretty clear set of guidelines around teaching and an onboarding
::process for new trainers and for new clients and stuff like that.
::So where do you feel are the gaps for you guys in in that sort of systematization of the business.
::Uh i would say like we're working on a lot of them but it's all
::little things about like if you have at the beginning it
::was like our instruction to our front desk staff was
::basically like be as kind be as empathetic be
::as uh you know friendly as you possibly can
::in all situations and apply logic you know
::as you see fit really like and i think at
::the beginning applying rules like how late can
::you be to a class before you just say hey no you're not allowed to come
::into the studio or uh you know people having
::late cancels or no shows or bits and
::pieces where there's lots of subjectivity i think
::at the beginning was really difficult because everyone has
::a different level of what's acceptable for a no
::show or what's acceptable for being late and i
::think at the beginning you're so concerned with just wanting to
::be liked and wanting to have customer base and
::all of that stuff that you basically just say yes to
::everything I don't think we charged a late cancer for the first four months
::um and so we we basically
::had this set of guidelines that we weren't really enforcing um and I was honestly
::probably one of the worst for it like I like I fold like a chair on the floor
::like if someone's at the door and they're six minutes late you know I just thought
::oh yeah just you know it's okay don't worry about it just go in,
::and then you have other staff who are like, hey, no, like this is the,
::like, I'm sorry, I can't let you in on it.
::Gets a messy, you know, and then it's like, hey, this person said I couldn't, I couldn't.
::So I'd say like systems for, you know, that's just one example,
::but there's so many variations of things that can happen on the desk and emails
::that we get that we didn't really have a system for.
::And I think that made it a little bit messy.
::And our default was always like, hey, if you're not sure, just email Cassie and I.
::And of course, that meant that basically we were handling every little situation.
::Um so we're kind of trying well i think
::we're doing a much better job now but we we have some hard and
::fast roles now which are just like if if you're
::on if you're new and you're not at the studio 10 minutes before
::your class you will not be able to do the class that day
::and that's just black and white um makes
::it easier for the front desk to have to right totally you know what they
::can and can't do yeah yeah um so kind
::of just some more sops with like you know things that need
::to happen in the studio on a day-to-day basis to keep
::things flowing because all of those little things like that's kind of what what
::we've started working on with you even around because like we were doing so
::much work on the back end responding to a lot of like really like you know novel
::kind of requests that you know our team should be able to deal with but we were
::just like i'll just send it to us,
::yeah those hard and fast rules for late
::you know cancellations no shows etc they're absolutely
::essential yeah yeah it
::becomes once you once you have a large client base you have to balance the needs
::of the people who did show up on time and make the effort to leave work early
::and all of that yeah with the you know with with the needs of everybody so i'm
::glad i'm glad that you've.
::Um it's with in terms of like sops for the staff i think i'm not sure if we've
::talked about this or not but i think there's a real balance there and i really
::do like your um i guess you kind of in injunction to just be as kind and warm
::and friendly and as possible and you know use logic,
::And I, I a hundred percent agree with having like hard and fast,
::clear cut rules for your client, because otherwise it's just chaos and the clients
::don't know how to behave and it's, you know, they get mixed messages from the
::staff. So I think I'm a hundred percent with that.
::But in terms of like rules for the staff about like his exact checklist of how
::to do this, you know, how to answer the phone or how to, you know,
::sign people in for class.
::I feel like there's some kind of balance there or trade-off where,
::like, if you have people who are highly aligned and who understand your market
::and understand, you know, what you do,
::you kind of don't need a lot of rules.
::Like, I'm pretty sure, Cassie, didn't have to give you a whole bunch of rules,
::Henry, about, you know, how to do the front desk job. You're just kind of like,
::it just wasn't pretty good.
::Exactly. It sounds oversimplified, but I think my biggest advice there would
::just be hire well, which is obviously very difficult.
::And not just hire well, pay well. Hire well, yeah, exactly.
::Like make sure, well, yeah, make sure that like, yeah, your staff are being
::like fairly remunerated.
::But obviously I think just, yeah, that's the key.
::Like you have to believe, like you're not, there's no way that you're going
::to be able to be in the studio at all times. So you've got to have faith,
::not just in them as an employee, but as a human being to make the decision that,
::you know, you would hope that they make.
::And I think just to add to that is like your staff might not make the decision
::that you want them to make.
::But if they're doing it with their best judgment and, you know,
::leading with their heart, like I feel like you have to back your staff in some
::situations, even if it wasn't exactly what you would have done.
::Because everyone deals with things just a little bit differently when it comes
::to, you know, we're all human and my response might be a little different to our front desk.
::But as long as they handled it well and, you know, just because it's not the
::exact thing that I would do doesn't mean that I shouldn't back them or,
::you know, get mad at them. Right.
::And I think it's probably better to have guidelines or principles rather than rules.
::Like, for example, if someone wants a refund or whatever, Your,
::your, your principle might be, we always refund people if they ask,
::or the principle might be, you know, we, we, we give the customer the benefit of the doubt.
::Yeah. We, we, we assume they have good intent and they're not trying to mess
::us around or the principle might be, we don't refund. Yeah. Like.
::Or the principle might be like we try and give extra value rather than a refund,
::you know, and then you just let people apply that, you know,
::as they see. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
::What's next for you guys and, you know, where do you want to take this?
::Well, I never envisioned Sunny Space to be just one studio.
::So um you know on my ideal situation
::maybe three four five studios um again
::i'm we don't want to pull the trigger on another studio until we can
::literally copy paste we want to make it easy for ourselves we
::don't want to have to go through what we did with the first one um it turned
::out well but you know with a lot of gray hairs and and stressful nights so um
::try to make that next studio as seamless as possible we don't know when that's
::happening yet but um yeah i think like as As long as, like, if the right opportunity comes across,
::like, we would love, that would be a great goal for us.
::And, yeah, we just want to keep fine-tuning already what we already have.
::I think, yeah, there's lots of different opportunities with the current studio.
::We want to do bits and pieces online with, like, some of our stuff, some of our socks.
::But, yeah, I think our goal would be eventually to have maybe,
::like, a second, third location.
::Five years ago if someone had asked you what's the top 10 things you think you'd
::be doing in five years would this have been on the list never didn't even know what Pilates was.
::It's so funny how life just leads you in in unexpected directions yeah truly
::no always yeah but we're happy we're here is there anything you know you you
::would like to share you've got a you've got a platform here.
::Um i've got a question like advice or like what whatever if you want to share
::anything with the Pilates instructors of the world the studio owners of the
::world if you want to ask me a question,
::um i think like like just putting love
::into the things that a lot of people don't put love into
::makes the biggest difference um i think
::especially staff for me anyways it might be different for
::on the the branding side of things but being able
::to have staff that you can fully trust takes time
::um it takes effort and um and
::you know finding people that align with your business is huge
::and not ignoring um early signs
::of you know if someone doesn't isn't get a good fit like don't sleep on it like
::make that decision um and trying to you know i shouldn't say like train up people
::inside your studio but if you see someone who is a good fit that comes to the studio all the time,
::see if they're interested in taking the course because you know likely if they're
::interested and they love they love it like they might be a good fit.
::Anything from you, Henry? You know what, Raph, I thought you were going to ask,
::because I was listening to one of your podcasts earlier, I thought you were
::going to ask a question about assumptions that you think people make about studios
::and things that maybe that aren't true.
::So I'll... I'll tell you what I'm in. Yeah, my response was going to be,
::you know, just building like a pretty studio and, you know, with all the bells
::and whistles is not enough.
::And I guess that kind of leads into what Cass has said. But I think the real
::magic is in all the work that you put into your staff and all of the little
::details and the way that people feel.
::And that's a battle that you have to do every single day.
::You can't just show up once for new people and then that's it and hope that
::the beautiful studio will carry it along.
::I think every single day you've got to put the same effort and energy into those
::people throughout their entire journey.
::Yeah. And there was something in there that Cassie just mentioned in passing.
::We have to finish up now but uh you know it's a whole other topic i'd
::like to work through yeah it's letting people go fast
::when you realize it's not a good fit yes yeah
::i think almost no one does that yeah i think you you just have uh a specific
::kind of person in mind and it becomes really easy when you have a vision of
::who you want on your team yeah thanks so much both of you it's been been a pleasure
::having you on the podcast awesome thanks bye thanks a lot ruff.
::Bye
